Hi Esther,
That is a bummer and a show stopper for me. Btw, is the fn key sticky?
We need to lobby audible to change that button to a link that any
screen reader can see. I suggest a standard listen link. I still
can't get at that symbol reliably.
Randy
On Oct 25, 2008, at 8:09 PM, Esther wrote:
Hi Randy and Jacob,
The situation with the new laptops without the numeric keypad option
(on MacBooks these are the models manufactured after November 2007)
is slightly weirder, but basically Jacob is correct. The slightly
weird part comes about because laptops also support a Universal
Access menu feature called "Mouse Keys" that lets folks who have
mobility problems move the position of their mouse cursor using the
numeric keypad keys. When you reference the central key or "5" in a
numeric keypad for the position of the mouse cursor, pressing the
key above it ("2") will move the mouse cursor up one screen pixel
unit, pressing the key below it ("8") will move the mouse cursor
down one screen pixel unit, and similarly for left ("4") and right
("6") motion. You could also move diagonally (up and to the left
with "1", up and to the right with "3", etc.)
On the older laptops, there were two ways you could use the numeric
keypad keys with Mouse Keys activated: You could either first toggle
on the numeric keypad by pressing the Numlock (F6) key. That turned
the right hand side of your laptop into a numeric keypad, so "7-8-9"
mapped to the same numbers on the numeric keypad, "u-i-o" mapped to
"4-5-6", and "j-k-l" mapped to "1-2-3". (All this would be
announced correctly in VoiceOver and you could use keyboard practice
mode to check the keys; you also got the plus, minus, 0, comma,
period, and other numpad keys adjacent to these.) Alternatively, you
could press the Fn key in combination with the Numpad letter keys to
get the equivalent Numpad functions without toggling the Numlock key
on: Fn+u, Fn+i, and Fn+o was like pressing "4-5-6" on a numeric
keypad. The "I" key was the center of the numeric keypad, and
corresponded to "5".
Even though Apple removed the Numlock key in the later model
laptops, they still had to support users who needed to use Mouse
Keys to position their cursor. So if you turn Mouse Keys on in the
Universal Access menu under System Preferences, part of your
keyboard works to allow you to move the cursor around, and pressing
Fn+u will move your mouse one screen pixel to the left, Fn+8 will
move your mouse one pixel up, Fn+k moves one pixel down, and Fn+o
moves one pixel right. (I don't really think about this -- the
center key is the "i" key and I just press Fn plus the key to the
left, right, up, or down from the "i" key to move the cursor in that
direction).
As a bonus, when you have Mouse Keys turned on, Fn+i acts like a
hardware click --- just as though you had Numpad Commander turned on
and were pressing the "5" key on a numerica keypad.
So you might wonder whether you can get some of the other Numpad
Commander keys working if you turn Mouse Keys on and enable Numpad
Commander in the VoiceOver preferences. Apple advises you not to do
this in their VoiceOver guide for Leopard. What happens is that you
get the Numpad Commander functions for the partial numeric keypad
that Mouse Keys gives you, but then you can't use your Command key.
Bit of a bummer.
Just FYI. And the reason for using Mouse Keys at all here, is that
there are some instances where Flash doesn't disclose web page
elements to VoiceOver, but where, if you can get there with your
mouse, you can click and access content. As an example, the sound
samples for the (U.S.) Audible.com audiobooks are embedded flash,
but you can play the sound samples on the page if you use Mouse Keys
(or other means) to navigate to the samples. See the Mac-
cessibility quick tip about this at lioncourt.com:
http://www.lioncourt.com/2008/07/19/play-samples-on-audiblecom-with-voiceover/
Cheers,
Esther
On Oct 25, 2008, at 11:50 AM, Randy Stegall wrote:
Ah, I knew there was a reason I did not care for those keyboards. :)
Randy
On Oct 25, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Jacob Schmude wrote:
If you've got a keyboard with a numpad or an older laptop with the
numpad overlay that is. The past few generations of laptops as
well as the new wireless keyboards lack any sort of numpad support
whatsoever.
On Oct 25, 2008, at 14:42, Randy Stegall wrote:
Using numpad commander numpad plus interacts and numpad minus
stops interacting. Thus there only 2 keys to remember. :)
Hth,
Randy
On Oct 25, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Estelita wrote:
Yeah, if we remember how to do it.
As myself, I always look at my notes when I work on my Mac.
However: I admired the developers' idea by integrating voice in
the Mac, it gives us choice.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Poehlman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of
Mac OS Xby theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: Apple Seeds Mac OS X 10.5.6 to Developers
Speaking from a pure design standpoint as a point of fact, the
vo interface
is a brilliant design. if you have trouble with
control-option-shift-down/up arrow, you can most often use tab
and shift tab
and arrows to do many things, you can also use the item chooser
in many
windows. Interacting is brilliant because it provides a way of
interacting
with tthings instead of them getting in the way when you don't
need or want
them.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Estelita" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of
Mac OS Xby
theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: Apple Seeds Mac OS X 10.5.6 to Developers
I think not only the vo find feature needs refining, there are
more features
that need lots of twigging before we land to where we want.
Personally, I don't really like this interacting command.
We have to remember 4 keys to do this.
Since voiceover is just new, we just hope the developers will
come up with
the key combinations that are easy to remember.
----- Original Message ----- From: "kaare dehard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of
Mac OS X by
theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: Apple Seeds Mac OS X 10.5.6 to Developers
I for one would like to see some touchups done to the vo find
feature,
It's good as far as it goes, I have found that on larger
busier pages it
is somewhat inconsistant as to what and when it will find
something. I
don't see why one day it will find something and behave, but
on another
just for giggles I look for the same thing and it's not
there. Going
windowsish isn't the way I'd like to see things go either,
but I am still
mindful that some refining would certainly be appreciated.
On 24-Oct-08, at 11:08 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
24 okt 2008 kl. 16.48 skrev Jacob Schmude:
Further, I for one hope that Voiceover doesn't borrow too
much from the
Windows screen readers' methods of web navigation.
I couldn't agree with you more there. The last thing i want
is a mac
platform with a windows screen reader. I want this os as
unique and as
good as it is today!
--
/Krister
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