you are so vivid! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Esther" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X by theblind" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 4:46 AM Subject: Re: numpad commander
Hi Estelita, Like Jacob, I don't really use NumPad Commander -- both because I'm used to Tiger and because my new MacBook doesn't support a numeric keypad. So there are probably other people who can give you better information on NumPad Commander. However, there are a few ways to check out the default settings. If you bring up the VoiceOver utility with VO-F8 (where VO or VO-keys is used to mean holding down the Command and Option keys --- so you hold down the Command and Option keys and then press the F8 key to bring up the VoiceOver utility), you can check what the default settings for NumPad Commander are. Press "N U" to select the NumPad option and VO-right arrow to view the settings. If NumPad Commander is activated (which you took care of with VO-clear), you'll hear "Enable NumPad Commander, checkbox". Using VO-space will let you toggle this between checked and unchecked status. If the box is checked for NumPad Commander enabled, you can VO-right arrow to the table of settings and interact (VO-keys Shift- Down arrow -- or in your case, with NumPad Commander on, just press the "+" key of the numeric keypad instead of using VO-Shift-Down arrow to interact). Then, if you VO-right arrow through the table you'll hear the numeric keypad key and it's assigned VoiceOver command. Stop interacting with the table (by pressing "-" on the numeric keypad) and quit VoiceOver Utility (Command-Q) when you're done. You can read about the default NumPad Commander settings and how to re- assign them in the VoiceOver Getting Started Leopard 10.5 guide. I've inserted below the relevant sections (pasted in) about the default key assignments, and how to custom assign new key assignments in the table for NumPad Commander in the VoiceOver Utility. You can access the PDF file (or other formats of this guide) at: http://www.cucat.org/books/vogs/vogs.php If you use Preview to read the VoiceOver Getting Started guide (the default application for PDF files), you can navigate to the sections that describe assigning these commands by using Command-Option-G (Go to Page Number -- also accessible through the "Go" menu on the Preview menu bar -- so with NumPad Commander on you could press "clear" then "G" to navigate to the "Go" menu, then down arrow into the menu and press "G" again to get the "Go to Page Number" command if you didn't remember the shortcut). Then type in "99" without the quotation marks and press return to go directly to page 99 of the Getting Started Guide. You can Bookmark this page (I've done this, because I've already had to look up the NumPad assignments a few times <smile>) by pressing Command-D and typing in a bookmark name -- like "NumPad Shortcuts" -- and then pressing return. Now, whenever you're in Preview, and navigate to the Bookmarks menu of the menu bar and select this bookmark (press "clear" then "b", then arrow down to "NumPad Shortcuts" or type "N" after the first down arrow to get to this bookmark and return), you will open the VoiceOver Getting Started Leopard document at this page in Preview. It doesn't even matter that you haven't selected this Document in finder. You can bookmark any pages in any Preview documents that you go back to frequently. It's also possible to run searches for terms in the document, find their locations in the Preview sidebar, and read the corresponding page in the document. For more information on using Preview, check Tim Kilburn's VoiceOver web pages on the Preview app: http://homepage.mac.com/kilburns/voiceover/preview5.html Anyway, others can help you with useful NumPad Commander assignments. The value of this is that you can customize VoiceOver shortcuts or combinations that you frequently use and assign them to numeric keypad keys with NumPad Commander. I'm also puzzled as to why Apple removed the numeric keypad combinations on notebooks and on their wireless keyboards at about the same time they introduced NumPad Commander in Leopard. It's certainly something I would use if I were starting to learn VoiceOver and had access to a numeric keypad. <begin quote on NumPad Commander assignments> Key assignment Command 1 Moves to the last visible item Shift-1 Moves to the last item 2 Moves down 4 Moves left 5 Clicks the mouse 6 Moves right 7 Moves to the first visible item Shift-7 Moves to the first item 8 Moves up 9 Opens the Item Chooser menu Plus Starts interacting with an item Minus Stops interacting with an item Clear Moves to the Menu bar Period Escape 0-Equal Hear the window overview 0-5 Read the visible text To assign actions to the numeric keypad: 1 Press VO-8 to open VoiceOver Utility and then select NumPad in the category table. 2 Make sure the Enable NumPad Commander checkbox is selected. 3 If you want to use a modifier key with the numeric keypad key, click the Modifier pop up menu at the bottom of the window and choose the modifier key you want to use. 4 Click the NumPad key you want to use. 5 Use the pop-up button arrow keys on the right to move up or down the menu of commands until you find the command you want to assign to the key. 6 Press Return to assign the command to the key. 7 Continue doing this until you have all the assignments you want. <end quote> Hope this helps. Cheers, Esther On Oct 25, 2008, at 7:16 PM, Estelita wrote: > Hi, > I can activate the NumPad Commander by pressing option + ctrl + > clear, and read the keys functions by activating the key practice. > Does it give different functions when it is configured from the > voice over utility? > Thank you. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "louie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS > X by theblind" <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 3:30 AM > Subject: Re: numpad commander > > > The commander is configured from the voice over utility. I have the 5 > key configured as a mouse click, pressing the 0 key with the 5 key > brings up a context menu. The enter key puts focus on the desktop. The > dot key says the context of the voice over cursor. 0 and the period > keys tells me the label of buttons and check box. The * key takes me > to the dock. The / key brings up the window chouser menu. The = key > brings up the app chouser. The rest of the keys are what that were > defined as they were. > > On Oct 25, 2008, at 7:52 PM, Estelita wrote: > >> Hi, >> What other commands do you use numpad commander with? >> I have it on my keyboard, but not much use of it. >> Perhaps you can instruct me to right direction. >> Thank you. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "louie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac >> OS X by theblind" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:50 AM >> Subject: Re: numpad commander >> >> >> OK for you who have a laptop why not get a external numpad? I use the >> numpad commander all of the time. Not sure that I could operate the >> Mac with out it. Just a thought. >> >> On Oct 25, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Esther wrote: >> >>> Hi Randy and Jacob, >>> >>> The situation with the new laptops without the numeric keypad >>> option (on MacBooks these are the models manufactured after >>> November 2007) is slightly weirder, but basically Jacob is >>> correct. The slightly weird part comes about because laptops >>> also support a Universal Access menu feature called "Mouse Keys" >>> that lets folks who have mobility problems move the position of >>> their mouse cursor using the numeric keypad keys. When you >>> reference the central key or "5" in a numeric keypad for the >>> position of the mouse cursor, pressing the key above it ("2") >>> will move the mouse cursor up one screen pixel unit, pressing >>> the key below it ("8") will move the mouse cursor down one >>> screen pixel unit, and similarly for left ("4") and right ("6") >>> motion. You could also move diagonally (up and to the left with >>> "1", up and to the right with "3", etc.) >>> >>> On the older laptops, there were two ways you could use the >>> numeric keypad keys with Mouse Keys activated: You could either >>> first toggle on the numeric keypad by pressing the Numlock (F6) >>> key. That turned the right hand side of your laptop into a >>> numeric keypad, so "7-8-9" mapped to the same numbers on the >>> numeric keypad, "u-i-o" mapped to "4-5-6", and "j-k-l" mapped to >>> "1-2-3". (All this would be announced correctly in VoiceOver >>> and you could use keyboard practice mode to check the keys; you >>> also got the plus, minus, 0, comma, period, and other numpad >>> keys adjacent to these.) Alternatively, you could press the Fn >>> key in combination with the Numpad letter keys to get the >>> equivalent Numpad functions without toggling the Numlock key on: >>> Fn+u, Fn+i, and Fn+o was like pressing "4-5-6" on a numeric >>> keypad. The "I" key was the center of the numeric keypad, and >>> corresponded to "5". >>> >>> Even though Apple removed the Numlock key in the later model >>> laptops, they still had to support users who needed to use Mouse >>> Keys to position their cursor. So if you turn Mouse Keys on in >>> the Universal Access menu under System Preferences, part of >>> your keyboard works to allow you to move the cursor around, and >>> pressing Fn+u will move your mouse one screen pixel to the >>> left, Fn+8 will move your mouse one pixel up, Fn+k moves one >>> pixel down, and Fn+o moves one pixel right. (I don't really >>> think about this -- the center key is the "i" key and I just >>> press Fn plus the key to the left, right, up, or down from the >>> "i" key to move the cursor in that direction). >>> >>> As a bonus, when you have Mouse Keys turned on, Fn+i acts like a >>> hardware click --- just as though you had Numpad Commander turned >>> on and were pressing the "5" key on a numerica keypad. >>> >>> So you might wonder whether you can get some of the other Numpad >>> Commander keys working if you turn Mouse Keys on and enable Numpad >>> Commander in the VoiceOver preferences. Apple advises you not to >>> do this in their VoiceOver guide for Leopard. What happens is >>> that you get the Numpad Commander functions for the partial >>> numeric keypad that Mouse Keys gives you, but then you can't use >>> your Command key. Bit of a bummer. >>> >>> Just FYI. And the reason for using Mouse Keys at all here, is >>> that there are some instances where Flash doesn't disclose web >>> page elements to VoiceOver, but where, if you can get there with >>> your mouse, you can click and access content. As an example, >>> the sound samples for the (U.S.) Audible.com audiobooks are >>> embedded flash, but you can play the sound samples on the page >>> if you use Mouse Keys (or other means) to navigate to the >>> samples. See the Mac- cessibility quick tip about this at >>> lioncourt.com: >>> >>> http://www.lioncourt.com/2008/07/19/play-samples-on-audiblecom-with-voiceover/ >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Esther >>> >>> >>> >>> On Oct 25, 2008, at 11:50 AM, Randy Stegall wrote: >>> >>>> Ah, I knew there was a reason I did not care for those >>>> keyboards. :) >>>> >>>> Randy >>>> On Oct 25, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Jacob Schmude wrote: >>>> >>>>> If you've got a keyboard with a numpad or an older laptop with >>>>> the numpad overlay that is. The past few generations of laptops >>>>> as well as the new wireless keyboards lack any sort of numpad >>>>> support whatsoever. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 25, 2008, at 14:42, Randy Stegall wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Using numpad commander numpad plus interacts and numpad >>>>>> minus stops interacting. Thus there only 2 keys to >>>>>> remember. :) >>>>>> >>>>>> Hth, >>>>>> >>>>>> Randy >>>>>> On Oct 25, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Estelita wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah, if we remember how to do it. >>>>>>> As myself, I always look at my notes when I work on my Mac. >>>>>>> However: I admired the developers' idea by integrating voice >>>>>>> in the Mac, it gives us choice. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Poehlman" >>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use >>>>>>> of Mac OS Xby theblind" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:04 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Apple Seeds Mac OS X 10.5.6 to Developers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Speaking from a pure design standpoint as a point of fact, >>>>>>>> the vo interface >>>>>>>> is a brilliant design. if you have trouble with >>>>>>>> control-option-shift-down/up arrow, you can most often use >>>>>>>> tab and shift tab >>>>>>>> and arrows to do many things, you can also use the item >>>>>>>> chooser in many >>>>>>>> windows. Interacting is brilliant because it provides a way >>>>>>>> of interacting >>>>>>>> with tthings instead of them getting in the way when you >>>>>>>> don't need or want >>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Estelita" >>>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use >>>>>>>> of Mac OS Xby >>>>>>>> theblind" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:57 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Apple Seeds Mac OS X 10.5.6 to Developers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think not only the vo find feature needs refining, there >>>>>>>> are more features >>>>>>>> that need lots of twigging before we land to where we want. >>>>>>>> Personally, I don't really like this interacting command. >>>>>>>> We have to remember 4 keys to do this. >>>>>>>> Since voiceover is just new, we just hope the developers >>>>>>>> will come up with >>>>>>>> the key combinations that are easy to remember. >>>>>>>>>
