I don't either, but that's probably because I got so used to using
Tiger for two years which didn't have it that, even when I'm hooked up
to a keyboard that has a numpad, I don't think about it. It's not that
I don't want to use numpad commander, its just that I actually have to
think about it before I realize it's there, and usually I wind up
going back to the regular old VO keys and for mouse movement I use
either the mouse or the trackpad, depending on what machine I'm on.
I do sort of wonder why Apple introduced numpad commander just before
they removed the full numpad overlay from their laptops and wireless
keyboards. True, a lot of people still have numpads or older laptops,
but I'd've thought that instead of introducing a numpad commander that
was going to be obsoleted in a couple of months, they would have
introduced a full hotkey remapping feature into Voiceover. Would have
made more sense to me.
On Oct 25, 2008, at 18:17, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
Hi,
I don't use numpad commander at all.
Thanks for listening,
Alex,
On 25-Oct-08, at 6:04 PM, Esther wrote:
Hi Louie,
I might try an external numpad, but I'm actually a relatively
recent Leopard user and got this MacBook maybe less than 2 months
ago. Hey, at least I have a Firewire port! <smile>. Anyway, most of
what I know about Numpad Commander is from reading the literature
and the list posts, not from experience using it. Thanks for the
suggestion.
Cheers,
Esther
On Oct 25, 2008, at 2:50 PM, louie wrote:
OK for you who have a laptop why not get a external numpad? I use
the numpad commander all of the time. Not sure that I could
operate the Mac with out it. Just a thought.
On Oct 25, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Esther wrote:
Hi Randy and Jacob,
The situation with the new laptops without the numeric keypad
option (on MacBooks these are the models manufactured after
November 2007) is slightly weirder, but basically Jacob is
correct. The slightly weird part comes about because laptops
also support a Universal Access menu feature called "Mouse Keys"
that lets folks who have mobility problems move the position of
their mouse cursor using the numeric keypad keys. When you
reference the central key or "5" in a numeric keypad for the
position of the mouse cursor, pressing the key above it ("2")
will move the mouse cursor up one screen pixel unit, pressing the
key below it ("8") will move the mouse cursor down one screen
pixel unit, and similarly for left ("4") and right ("6") motion.
You could also move diagonally (up and to the left with "1", up
and to the right with "3", etc.)
On the older laptops, there were two ways you could use the
numeric keypad keys with Mouse Keys activated: You could either
first toggle on the numeric keypad by pressing the Numlock (F6)
key. That turned the right hand side of your laptop into a
numeric keypad, so "7-8-9" mapped to the same numbers on the
numeric keypad, "u-i-o" mapped to "4-5-6", and "j-k-l" mapped to
"1-2-3". (All this would be announced correctly in VoiceOver and
you could use keyboard practice mode to check the keys; you also
got the plus, minus, 0, comma, period, and other numpad keys
adjacent to these.) Alternatively, you could press the Fn key in
combination with the Numpad letter keys to get the equivalent
Numpad functions without toggling the Numlock key on: Fn+u, Fn+i,
and Fn+o was like pressing "4-5-6" on a numeric keypad. The "I"
key was the center of the numeric keypad, and corresponded to "5".
Even though Apple removed the Numlock key in the later model
laptops, they still had to support users who needed to use Mouse
Keys to position their cursor. So if you turn Mouse Keys on in
the Universal Access menu under System Preferences, part of your
keyboard works to allow you to move the cursor around, and
pressing Fn+u will move your mouse one screen pixel to the left,
Fn+8 will move your mouse one pixel up, Fn+k moves one pixel
down, and Fn+o moves one pixel right. (I don't really think
about this -- the center key is the "i" key and I just press Fn
plus the key to the left, right, up, or down from the "i" key to
move the cursor in that direction).
As a bonus, when you have Mouse Keys turned on, Fn+i acts like a
hardware click --- just as though you had Numpad Commander turned
on and were pressing the "5" key on a numerica keypad.
So you might wonder whether you can get some of the other Numpad
Commander keys working if you turn Mouse Keys on and enable
Numpad Commander in the VoiceOver preferences. Apple advises you
not to do this in their VoiceOver guide for Leopard. What
happens is that you get the Numpad Commander functions for the
partial numeric keypad that Mouse Keys gives you, but then you
can't use your Command key. Bit of a bummer.
Just FYI. And the reason for using Mouse Keys at all here, is
that there are some instances where Flash doesn't disclose web
page elements to VoiceOver, but where, if you can get there with
your mouse, you can click and access content. As an example, the
sound samples for the (U.S.) Audible.com audiobooks are embedded
flash, but you can play the sound samples on the page if you use
Mouse Keys (or other means) to navigate to the samples. See the
Mac-cessibility quick tip about this at lioncourt.com:
http://www.lioncourt.com/2008/07/19/play-samples-on-audiblecom-with-voiceover/
Cheers,
Esther
On Oct 25, 2008, at 11:50 AM, Randy Stegall wrote:
Ah, I knew there was a reason I did not care for those
keyboards. :)
Randy
On Oct 25, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Jacob Schmude wrote:
If you've got a keyboard with a numpad or an older laptop with
the numpad overlay that is. The past few generations of laptops
as well as the new wireless keyboards lack any sort of numpad
support whatsoever.
On Oct 25, 2008, at 14:42, Randy Stegall wrote:
Using numpad commander numpad plus interacts and numpad minus
stops interacting. Thus there only 2 keys to remember. :)
Hth,
Randy
On Oct 25, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Estelita wrote:
Yeah, if we remember how to do it.
As myself, I always look at my notes when I work on my Mac.
However: I admired the developers' idea by integrating voice
in the Mac, it gives us choice.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Poehlman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of
Mac OS Xby theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: Apple Seeds Mac OS X 10.5.6 to Developers
Speaking from a pure design standpoint as a point of fact,
the vo interface
is a brilliant design. if you have trouble with
control-option-shift-down/up arrow, you can most often use
tab and shift tab
and arrows to do many things, you can also use the item
chooser in many
windows. Interacting is brilliant because it provides a way
of interacting
with tthings instead of them getting in the way when you
don't need or want
them.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Estelita" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use
of Mac OS Xby
theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: Apple Seeds Mac OS X 10.5.6 to Developers
I think not only the vo find feature needs refining, there
are more features
that need lots of twigging before we land to where we want.
Personally, I don't really like this interacting command.
We have to remember 4 keys to do this.
Since voiceover is just new, we just hope the developers
will come up with
the key combinations that are easy to remember.
----- Original Message ----- From: "kaare dehard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use
of Mac OS X by
theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: Apple Seeds Mac OS X 10.5.6 to Developers
I for one would like to see some touchups done to the vo
find feature,
It's good as far as it goes, I have found that on larger
busier pages it
is somewhat inconsistant as to what and when it will find
something. I
don't see why one day it will find something and behave,
but on another
just for giggles I look for the same thing and it's not
there. Going
windowsish isn't the way I'd like to see things go either,
but I am still
mindful that some refining would certainly be appreciated.
On 24-Oct-08, at 11:08 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
24 okt 2008 kl. 16.48 skrev Jacob Schmude:
Further, I for one hope that Voiceover doesn't borrow too
much from the
Windows screen readers' methods of web navigation.
I couldn't agree with you more there. The last thing i
want is a mac
platform with a windows screen reader. I want this os as
unique and as
good as it is today!
--
/Krister
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