[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Chad Smith wrote: > Two things here - I understand OOo is a unique program and isn't
striving to be like everybody else. I also understand that any hint of OOo being a "MS Office clone" is a capital offense. However when every program on earth does something the same way - there is likely a good reason. I'm not saying it should be accepted blindly, but it is at least something to look into.
This, IMO, was accepted without a whole lot of thought put into it. :(
I've seen you and maybe one other person who claim to miss this "feature". I don't think it is widely desired. I mean, how hard is it to remember you were on page 15 or even page 147?
I guess if I only use on document, not very hard, but when you have several it can be difficult, maybe just me.
I have seen only you and one other person bad mouth this feature of OOo. Others bad mouthed it because there were too many options.
Everyone program I've every used (and I have over 15 word processors or office suites that I play with and test) starts the cursor at the top of the document whenever you open it. That's normal. That's standard. That's what people expect.
Then I guess those of us who use OOo and expect it to return where we left it are screwed.
Pretty much, yes. Although I'd change it to "Those of us who use OOo and want it to return to where we left are screwed". I use OOo and want it to return to the top. In every choice in design for a given program, some will enjoy it, some will - in your words get screwed. I think we should try to screw the least number of people. And removing - YES "removing"- some options - actually a heck of a lot of options - will help more people than it screws. I'm for the Firefox model all the way!
Let's just remove them all. Who decides which options are good and bad. Can't you see that this is a feature some people would use. If you are technical writer, or even a humble volunteer in the OOoAuthors project and you are editing a large document that you can't do in one sitting and have to save it and leave and can't go back for a few days, it becomes difficult to remember the page or spot were you were.
I can concede some option in OOo may be useless. They don't bother me. But to lose this option just so we can have less, I hope you would agree, is a bad philosophy.
If I opened a document and it jumped to the 3rd word in the 4th sentence of the 2nd paragraph on page 157 of chapter 6 - I'd be a little concerned. I'd think it was a bug - like it didn't shut down properly or something.
This makes sense, I guess, if you are receiving a doc from a friend or something, but if you are editing it yourself and want to go back to where you left, wouldn't it be nice to be returned there?
No, not really. I mean, I tend to try to finish up a thought before I save and quit. So, when I come back, I usually have a pretty good idea of where I was, and then just scroll down, or page down, to the area, and start where it looks most familiar. I try to make it easy on myself by at least finishing off a paragraph, if not a page or section, so coming back isn't that big a deal.
People are different. I know one person who intentionally stops midsentence to help get his brain working faster when he restarts typing. If he has to scroll down 20 pages every time he opens a doc using 10 - 15 seconds to find his spot. Just opening that doc 4 times has already wasted 1 minute of his life.
Can you say that leaving the option in would waste any time in your life?
Now, on to point two....
OpenOffice has about 500 preferences last time I counted them very roughly. *Anything* that reduces preferences is a good thing.
AMEN!
Functionality and choices is great - but when it gets in the way of simply getting the job done - it's time to cut back. This was a useless option that very few people knew existed and even fewer used. I'm glad to get one more option *OFF* the list.
Not useless.
It helps get the job done for editing big docs.
Again, I just remember where I was. If I can't tell by reading something in the general area where I have edited and where I haven't - putting a cursor at the last place I was isn't going to help. I mean, what if the last thing I did was scroll down to see how much I had left in the section? My cursor would be there - not where I left off editing. Even with this supposed "feature" I would still have to remember where I was. I really think this thing is not nearly as important as you think it is. Maybe it is to you - but you are one user out of several million.
As are you. And your *ONLY* reason for removing the choice is that you think there are too many option.
Most users - from what I can tell - would prefer to have to start at the top.
There have been at least three that agree it is a good feature and two that think there are too many options.
And I base that on this thread being basically a one-man crusade, and on the fact that every other program I've ever used starts me at the top.
Except MS Works has this same option.
If everybody else is doing it, there is probably a reason, and the reason is, that's what people expect, and that's what they want. If one or two people get screwed by that, I'm sorry, but choices must be made, and this one obviously has.
Why is this a choice that HAS to be made?
The reason people do this now is that the majority belongs to MS and MS does this. I thought one of the points of OOo was to offer an *ALTERNATIVE*.
Your analogy would be similar to saying that everybody has IE explorer on their computer so we should only use that. If I wanted the features "everybody" has, I would still use MS Word.
I mean you totally contradict yourself with your thoughts about the properties menu. According to your logic, everybody knows the properties menu is under file, so it must be right.
Amen again. OOo should meet user needs - not cause user problems. I understand that with any program there will be a learning curve, but there is no need to make the curve any more steep than it has to be. Putting some "Ugly" file extension in the title bar is perfectly fine. Especially if the user has more than one file with the same name. I mean, what if you have an RTF file, an OOT file, and a DOC file all named Resume.XXX - If you are editing one for a particular reason, it might make sense to know - at a glance - which one you've got open.
Then you should have a choice. Or use the url bar that was standard in 1.1.x and is an option in 2.0. It is the little bar next to the New button that lists the file name.
You can also open recent docs from it.
OOo has way too many choices already. Look at Firefox, Mozilla's been around for years, and it can do a lot more than Firefox, but it wasn't until Ff came out, with its cleaner interface *AND* far few options that people sat up and took notice. We have people on the list that are constantly harping on elegance of design and getting more with less - this is one example where the programmers of OOo are setting out to do that, and I am completely behind them 100%!
Or could it be the massive ad campaign behind FF that helped push it? There was never that kind of push with Mozilla.
BTW, I used OOo for a *long* time before I knew what the URL bar *was* much less how to use it. I'm glad it's gone. I wish they hadn't have left it as an option, because that's just one more pointless check-box in the dialog menus....
So good, every feature that people don't understand would should just eliminate. Rather than educate and learn and have a better program, let's just destroy it all.
Why do we even have OOo. Everything you want to do can be done in MS Word, because everything that might confuse someone is going to be different than MS Word.
To a newbie Styles are confusing, should we abandon them? How many times have I seen people on the users list say the OOo page numbering is too confusing and they are going back to Word. From what I can gather OOo page numbering is vastly superior (I don't use it), but in your world, since it is confusing we should abolish and do what everyone else does.
Do you see why that is a bad approach? Soon we will be the same as everyone hence eliminating the choice that is OpenSource software.
-- Peter Kupfer OOo user since 'OO4 http://peschtra.tripod.com/open_office/ooo_front.htm
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