On 4/2/2014 2:38 PM, a l wrote:
I have no idea how often it would get used.
Thank you for answering my question. I'm just trying to figure out
whether this is something we should be actively pursuing. If its going
to take up 32 square feet of shop floor space, cost us $1K and never get
used (all are hypothetical figures), then I don't see much of a reason
to pursue discussion much further. But if it's going to cost that much,
and be that large, but get used six times a day and bring in newbies off
the street, then hell yeah, let's find us the nicest damn panel saw we
can afford.
If anyone else wants to provide input on how often they think something
like this would get used, I'm all ears.
Chris
I'm barely at the space as it
is. People brought up a problem and solution that was initially thought to
be prohibitively expensive which got me thinking "we're hackers, someone
else has had to have DIY'd one of these before. I wonder how much it
saves?". To me this is one of those things that makes life easier and may
enable people to make projects at SynHak they might not otherwise have
made.
How often do we use the tools we already have?
In addition to discussing purchasing options this thread is also a place
for people to discuss whether they think it'd be better to buy a panel saw
or expand the machine shop thereby shrinking/displacing the meeting area.
On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Torrie Fischer <[email protected]>wrote:
On Wednesday, April 02, 2014 14:20:05 Chris Egeland wrote:
I recognize that it's not a proposal, I'm just discussing a concern I
have before we're a month and a half into discussion about the topic.
I understand the problem that this is attempting to address. I
understand pretty much everything that's been brought up in discussion
about this.
I just want to know how often you, Andrew, personally think it'll get
used.
I'm not Andrew, but I'd use it maybe once or twice every few months.
I don't build workbenches every day, though I think I assembled quite a
few of
the ones we have now.
There's a few more workbenches that I'd like to chop up too, but I'm very
comfortable with and capable of using a regular circular saw instead of
some
big-ass piece of equipment. Not having one isn't a problem for me, and
having
one would only be a minor benefit to me.
Chris
On 4/2/2014 1:58 PM, a l wrote:
This isn't a proposal yet. Just further discussion on an Item that
came up
at the meeting.
The problem we're trying to solve is large format wood handling. When
we
enclose the machine shop/tool room we either have to expand its
footprint,
get something like a panel saw, or arrange the table saw so wood can be
outfed through a window/door.
This is justified by concerns for people who want to build their own,
or
expand SynHak's work bench population. The other concern was that once
the
shop is enclosed there won't be enough room to flip a 4x8' sheet of
anything.
I agree $1000 dollars is a lot to spend on something that won't get a
lot
of use. Many of the kits come with everything but the saw so we could
conceivably dedicate one of our many circular saws to this purpose and
save
some money. Perhaps a stop-gap solution is, we build the frame for a
pane
saw but use guide boards rather than the expensive rails and
counterweight
arrangements. This requires more finesse on the operators part but if
it's
an infrequently used too $40 in lumber might be all we are willing to
spend
on it.
As far as the foot print concern, many kits and commercial products
have
shortened or collapsible arms so it only takes up the full 8' when
there's
a board in it. All examples I've suggested are vertical with beds
tilted
at
high angles so they could be stored against a wall or otherwise placed
out
of the way.
regards,
Andrew L
On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Chris Egeland
<[email protected]>wrote:
How often do you foresee such a saw being used? We have three or
four
bandsaws, two tablesaws, countless circular saws, a scroll saw,
probably
a
reciprocating saw or two, and countless other machines that can be
used
to
cut wood. I rarely ever observe any of them being used. Granted, I'm
not
spending 30 hours a week at the space anymore, either.
I ask because if you're talking about something that's going to take
up a
significant portion of floor space and cost us $1000 or so, I would
like
to
know the answers to these questions before providing input on such a
proposal.
Chris
On 4/2/2014 1:22 PM, a l wrote:
The price difference for the heavy duty panel saws mostly looks to be
quick: change fittings for the saw mount, crosscut capacity, extended
length, and various cutting guides like lasers and mid-bed clamps.
There
are a few kits and add-ons that allow for miter cuts but most panel
saws
seem to be limited to cross- and rip-cuts.
If we want to do complicated cuts perhaps something like a shop-bot is
something we should be considering. Some of the kits do offer router
mounts
but I don't know if their rails are designed for 2-axis motion.
-Andrew L
On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 7:37 AM, Torrie Fischer <
[email protected]>
<[email protected]>wrote:
On Wednesday, April 02, 2014 02:21:17 a l wrote:
Well the lumber yard quality ones do start at 3-5k. But they have
long
beds/arms and can do off angles. The cheap kits are limited to 90*
cuts
for
the most part and don't have as good of bearings or dust collection
options.
If I understand correctly, to get non-square cuts, the saw itself
usually
rotates?
I wonder if we could rotate the wood instead by having a ramp of sorts
that
can be clamped down at various angles.
I think there's a balance to be struck, some of the wood working
forums
suggest buying a kit for the bearings and rails since a bunch of the
plans
for sale rely on u bolts and emt conduit which may not hold
tolerances
if
someone is ripping the length of a sheet of plywood.
Regards,
Andrew L
On Apr 2, 2014 12:19 AM, "Torrie Fischer" <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>>>
wrote:
On Tuesday, April 01, 2014 21:25:42 a l wrote:
Before I had to leave the meeting early there was discussion about
how
to
retrofit the machine shop to limit dust &c. In that discussion the
topic
of
plywood/large format wood handling came up and a panel saw like what
lumber
yards have was suggested. New/Used ones apparently cost thousands of
dollars so I sought out a DIY solution.
I've found a few kits that come in varying degrees of fully assembled
with
prices between ~$300-$1000. There are also a few designs for sale
from
backissues of woodworking magazines($10/issue). Given enough time
staring
at the ones at the home improvement store and pictures online we
could
probably make our own without buying plans. Or should we save our
time
and
just buy a kit?
At any rate I think it's a viable solution.
I did think it was a bit odd to hear that one would cost $5k.
Shouldn't be too hard to build one using some rails a saw mount and
frame.
We're all about building stuff like that anyways, so its odd that
we'd
think
to buy one.
http://panelsawsrus.com/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-Sliding-Panel-Saw-Hardware-Kit-/2811910797
78
http://www.widgetworksunlimited.com/Panel_Saw_DIY_Frame_Kit_p/ww-pane
l_saw
-d>
iy.htm
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2082569/33113/Safety-Speed-Cut-Panel
-Pro->
2
-Saw-Model-PRO2K.aspx http://plansnow.com/dn3099.html
http://www.finewoodworking.com/workshop/tip/build-your-own-panel-saw.
aspx
http://www.rockler.com/woodworking/Panel-Saw-Kit
If someone is vehemently against spending the cash and spare circular
saw
on one we could also situate the table saw near the garage door-side
of
the
shop and just open the planned( they are planned aren't they?)
double
doors and put an outfeed table in the hallway when we need to make
big
cuts.
happy hacking!
Andrew L
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