I completely agree. If you want to make the sale you have to educate the client. Most owners (of real companies) can quickly see the advantage - if you are credible. Most mid level managers - they want to take the path of least resistance. Most owners of cash strapped little businesses can't get past the initial expense - hey I have been there. So PHP does serve a useful function. It is great when you have more time than money - and you are writing the code yourself. Actually CF hosting is so cheap now I can't even make that argument with a straight face. Too bad Adobe has done such a rotten job in this area and it is up to us to promote would should be the industry dominator. BTW, Adobe, the wounds of a friend are better than the kisses of an enemy... :-)
_____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Charlie Arehart Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 5:48 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] I find myself where I have tried to avoid going. A short rant and then a question. Would love some feedback. Good point, Frank. And it's not just managers who fall into that "false economy" trap. I experience the same with some CFers who, when faced with a problem, may balk at my troubleshooting support rate of $175 hour, saying "Gosh, I only get x per hour, so that's too much!" What they don't think about is that they can spend a few hours trying to solve a problem (and sometimes may spend days or weeks suffering from it), when they might be able to bring me (or others who do such support) in for perhaps just an hour. I even offer a satisfaction guarantee, so that people need not pay if I don't really prove helpful. Still, some just see that "big" rate and balk. (Fortunately I get plenty of folks who do bring me in.) I'm just saying that "false economy" seems a prevalent challenge. Sorry to take the thread a little off-course. We now return you to your regularly scheduled "programming". :-) /charlie From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Frank Moorman Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 5:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] I find myself where I have tried to avoid going. A short rant and then a question. Would love some feedback. I agree that from the business point of view the most important figure is the lowest cost of ownership. Also, that a most cases good CF programmer can build an app cheaper then a comparable app in PHP even when considering the higher initial cost of CF server and the slightly higher wages of the CF programmer. (due mostly to rapid app development.) However the money argument falls flat in one overriding aspect: Most non-technical business people do not understand technology. Without this knowledge they are more than likely to look at pure price comparisons without knowing about the real cost of labor and maintenance over time. When this happens, the cost of PHP (free) along with a cheaper source of programmers will always win. <snip> Now, here is where the money kicks in: Cost to client for me to do it: $90 x 8hrs = $720 Cost for offshore devs to do it incorrectly : $30 x 120hrs = $3600 Clearly my knowledge and experience shows that by keeping me, the client would save $2,820. However, to the non-technical business manager assumes that all programmers are the same, and in doing so thinks that I too would take 120 hours costing $10,800. So to the non-techie, he/she thinks they saved the company $7,200 when it really cost the company $2,820 more. (of course at this time any MBA would ask for a bonus/raise for saving so much money and get rid of anyone that argues against their math. :-) ) So money is the most important aspect to a business person, but make sure that you include educating the business people into the realism of development. --Frank ------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink <http://www.fusionlink.com> ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -------------------------------------------------------------
