+1 to separate django and admin o other contrib app.
-0 to mantain another/alternative admin on contrib
It is understandable at first that was maintained at par for order and
security in the project itself.
But today, after Django 1.3.1 I think it's time to review the
situation of contrib.
With teams in each Django contrib application would be a
little more flexible.
That is my humble opinion :)
Regards,
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Jonathan Paugh <jpa...@gmx.us
<mailto:jpa...@gmx.us>> wrote:
There's a big rift here between what people want to do with admin and
what people want to do with django itself. To summarize: the admin
should be amazing by itself and chock full of features, while django
should be empowering without getting in the way.
I've seen a lot of good ideas for admin rejected recently because they
couldn't fit into Django's overall vision. I don't think there is any
way to resolve this rift: it will persist. Django and admin should be
developed separately, likely by separate teams. They could still
live in
the same codebase, with an "subofficial" admin fork. Then, the
official
django repo could pull in changes according to some suitable policy.
However, maintaining it as a separate project wouldn't hurt, either:
In address to Anssi's concerns: conteaching pip is as easy as `pip
install django-admin`, and the two projects could be tarball-ed
together
somehow. (Could it be that hard to teach setup.py to install another
package from a subdir? Or to tar up them separately?) (And what is
virtualenv? Do I need it to install admin? Let's address that in a
separate tutorial, with a link and a notation.)
Peace,
Jonathan
P.S. I'm fairly new here (~1 month), and my perspective is
proportionally skewed.
On 02/03/2012 02:07 PM, Ryan D Hiebert wrote:
> I think that Django's admin app is a killer feature for two main
reasons:
> 1. It is automatically installed, and integrated into the tutorial.
> 2. It is used all over in third-party apps, because they can
expect it to be there.
>
> While I appreciate that there may be differences in core vs
admin that may slow down development of the admin, I'm wary of
removing it from the django install, thinking that it might hurt
reason 2, even if it is integrated in the tuturial, and possibly
even installed automatically.
>
> Although as far as the automatic install goes, I'm not sure how
that would work. Would it be a dependency? That doesn't make sense.
>
> On Feb 3, 2012, at 6:21 AM, Max Thayer wrote:
>
>> The point about admin's appeal to new people is important, but
externalizing it and keeping new people from ever seeing it are
very different. Consider: admin isn't even enabled by default. You
have to follow the tutorial on how to enable it. If admin weren't
included in Django proper, we could just change the tutorial to
"Apps are awesome; here's how to download and install one written
by someone else." New users could meet pip sooner, and otherwise
understand how to integrate with the broader python/django
community's various creations.
>>
>> Actually, a friend of mine and I have been plotting out
externalizing various parts of contrib, like admin and auth. Are
any groups currently pursuing those goals as well?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Max
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 8:35 AM, Brendan Smith
<bren...@nationalpriorities.org
<mailto:bren...@nationalpriorities.org>> wrote:
>> I give +1 to the idea of separating out the admin and letting
people fork and modify to their hearts content
>>
>> I also still give my +1 to having it utilize less, but I am
also cautious like others about prescribing bootstrap specifically
, especially the JS since as others have pointed out is somewhat
unstable right now and not very easy to use at times (took me a
long time to figure out modals)
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2012, at 1:25 AM, Harris Lapiroff
<harrislapir...@gmail.com <mailto:harrislapir...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> The Django admin is a major—if not *the* major—selling point to
>>> budding developers. I worry that externalizing it (hence
making it a
>>> *separate* piece of software that needs to be discovered and
>>> installed, which seems simple but can be quite a challenge to new
>>> coders) might take away Django's non-expert appeal. When I started
>>> using Django, I knew no python. The only reason I was able to make
>>> that work was because of the Django admin. If the admin gets
kicked
>>> out, I think it should be made *very* obvious where to find one.
>>>
>>> I'd be wary of putting them in core but I think using
Bootstrap and
>>> Less for a new admin (whether internal or external) would make its
>>> development much faster. Dependencies should not be a problem.
I think
>>> jQuery is a pretty apt analogy here. You probably won't write much
>>> javascript for the Django admin without learning jQuery. You
can if
>>> you want to. But most people don't need or want to write
javascript
>>> for the Django admin anyway. I think a framework like Bootstrap it
>>> would actually simplify adding new features. It provides so
many CSS
>>> classes that there's a pretty good chance your feature wouldn't
>>> require you to write even a line of CSS. I was able to convert an
>>> unstyled app that I've been working on to functionally using
Bootstrap
>>> in just about an hour after starting to learn it.
>>>
>>> That having been said, I'd still be cautious with Bootstrap.
It is a
>>> young piece of software that is incredibly impressive and mind-
>>> bogglingly easy to use, but obviously still in flux.
>>>
>>> On Feb 2, 5:38 pm, Sean Brant <brant.s...@gmail.com
<mailto:brant.s...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Alex Gaynor
<alex.gay...@gmail.com <mailto:alex.gay...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 5:01 PM, Adrian Holovaty
<adr...@holovaty.com <mailto:adr...@holovaty.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Sean Brant
<brant.s...@gmail.com <mailto:brant.s...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Is this up somewhere public? I've been fighting the urge
to do this as
>>>>>>> well. Using django-compressor with less on Heroku is a
non-starter
>>>>>>> since you can't install node. Having this as a Python
module would be
>>>>>>> handy.
>>>>
>>>>>> Not yet, alas, but hopefully soon.
>>>>
>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps this is too far in the future looking. But at a
certain point the
>>>>> admin must become a separate project. One of the major goals of
>>>>> newforms-admin ('lo those years ago) was to demote the admin
from special
>>>>> status, with hooks inside core left and right, to "just an
app". Let's
>>>>> carry that to the logical conclusion: just an app *outside
of Django*.
>>>>
>>>>> That gives the maintainers the freedom to reinvent it, and
use tools like
>>>>> less or bootstrap without it needing to be an issue of
policy for all of
>>>>> Django. Because when I first read saw this thread my
thought was, "Hmm,
>>>>> what unholy mess of requirements am I going to need if I
want to just run
>>>>> the test suite. Will I still be able to write new features
in forms without
>>>>> needing to learn what the hell less or compass is?".
Several years ago, I
>>>>> opposed using jQuery in the admin, on the principle that
Django should be
>>>>> completely free of entangling alliances. I made that
argument more or less
>>>>> out of habit, just because I felt it was an argument that
ought to be made,
>>>>> but really I was pretty happy to get to use jQuery. Now I'm
saying, it's
>>>>> pretty clear that admin 2.0 (or 3.0, or 4.0, anyone
counting?) is going to
>>>>> be a beast that far outstrips almost anything else in Djanog
(besides the
>>>>> ORM ;)) in complexity, with more dependencies, more
associated tooling, and
>>>>> more usecases (i.e. it's not just a tool for developers to
use, it's also
>>>>> something for end users of *our* users' apps to use).
Keeping that in
>>>>> Django itself is going to stunt it's growth, and it's going
to suck for new
>>>>> developers to Django who, like many of us (or at least
myself), were and
>>>>> still are, Python developers at heart, who can write some
HTML, badly.
>>>>
>>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the
death your right to
>>>>> say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall (summarizing Voltaire)
>>>>> "The people's good is the highest law." -- Cicero
>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> Given how flexible the admin is doing somethings is still pretty
>>>> annoying. I feel like if it was a external project with its own
>>>> release schedule more progress could be made. FWIW i'm
experimenting
>>>> with an admin interface that relies heavily on class based
views. So
>>>> far I like it. CBVs seem to have more useful hooks then the admin
>>>> currently has. At the very least I think the new admin needs
to not be
>>>> backwards compatible with the current admin.
>>>>
>>>> So my vote is for django-admin2 as an external project.
>>>
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>>
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>>
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