On 17/09/10 09:35, Robert Bronsdon wrote: > On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 08:25:00 +0100, Sean Gibbins > <s...@funkygibbins.me.uk> wrote: > >> precisely zero value on your peace of mind or your physical safety > > I'll admit I speed at times. This doesn't mean I put precisely zero > value on your safety. As with anything in life I take a calculated > risk that something "could" go wrong. The limits are not based on > scientific fact. In reality the 70mph limit was a snap judgement by a > government put on the spot. Other limits have more basis and some are > just fillers. > > At 3am when I am the only car on the motorway, that 70 restriction > goes out the window. Does that mean I'm not thinking about your > safety? Similarly when I see a car on the hard shoulder I will often > move to the middle lane. The rules are not hard and fast set and > sometimes driving to the conditions is more appropriate than driving > to "the law". > > I will agree there are people that don't drive to the conditions. > Often though I think its the condition they are not watching, not > their speed. > > As a final point, a bad condition car (tires, brakes etc.) will have > as much impact on a potential 30mph collision as doing 40mph in a > modern good condition car. Stopping distances etc. taken into account. > Remembering that fun TV advert (hitting at 30 has a 80% chance of > survival - hitting at 40 has an 80% chance of death). The statistics > are interesting if you swap cars around. That old Land Rover, even at > 30 has a pretty high fatality rate. That modern small car has a pretty > high survival rate at 40. > > So am I placing less value on your safety just for driving a bigger > car? am I placing more for driving a smaller one with pedestrian > friendly bumpers?
You've identified a number of factors that suggest variable speed limits to sensible people, but you haven't identified how you would apply them across the board to everyone. Do we do away entirely with speed limits and leave it to the individual to judge? Driving on a motorway in appalling conditions and watching cars tailgating each other exceeding the speed limit for /good/ conditions might indicate this is a very bad idea. We tend to make judgements based on circumstances (I was late for work officer - I have an important meeting) and not always on common sense or what we suspect is right. What about drink driving? Some people can handle more alcohol than others - do we allow arbitrary limits where that is concerned, based on how much they think they can drink before their judgement is impaired, or on how few people are likely to find themselves in their way when they exceed that limit? No, we draw a line in the hope that it allows most people a reasonable amount of freedom while protecting others from drunk drivers. Same with speeding. > >> Look at the county where the police, in a recent (admittedly political) >> move > > You mean the politicians did something their voters _wanted_ them to > do. It's a revelation. > > (On second reading this sound like I'm having a dig at Sean. This > isn't my intention, more to have a dig at our current political position) > >> did precisely that with their speed cameras. There was an >> immediateincrease in speeding offences. > > In offences or in convictions? Offences, apparently: http://tinyurl.com/2agqsjl [Indepent report from Thursday, 12 August 2010] > > And more importantly, what about the accident/injury/death rates? Were > people getting from a -> b faster and not doing any damage? > >> I accept many of the arguments about the potential for abuse of camera >> technology, databases and biometrics, but rarely do I hear anyone state >> that they have suffered directly as a result of that sort of thing. > >> Almost always, in my personal experience, the people most vocal in this >> debate eventually reveal that they were ticketed for doing 40 in a 30 >> zone, and then go on to complain about the cameras being revenue >> generators for the county, deviously placed, etc. > > 98 on a dual carriageway late at night, mid summer - good visibility > dry roads - with no other cars in sight. Bright yellow standing > camera. I was more interested in looking at the slip road to my left > ensuring there were no cars looking to merge. Taking me to court over > the whole thing cost them more than the fine I received. Out of interest, what upper limit would you place on that road? Would 100mph be fair? Or 150mph where the car in question was designed for that sort of speed? Or unlimited perhaps, based on the skill of the driver and the effectiveness of the brakes? I'm pretty sure you'd agree that variable limits on that basis are pretty difficult for the driver to understand and the law to enforce. An alternative might be to select a limit that represents something of a compromise taking into account average conditions, average drivers and average cars. Easy to understand, easy to enforce. > > 62 (average over a quarter mile from standing) in a 40 - pegged by a > big BMW estate sitting right on my tail. Turned out he had blue lights > behind his front grill. Egg on face time. He was shocked I slowed when > I entered the 30 and slowed down. More shocked that I justified > myself. The 40 was in place because of a near-bye school, which I > don't consider a hazard at 00:30. Pavements all had fences to them and > a grass verge before the road. Pedestrian bridge minimised the chances > of anyone crossing anyway. Well lit road etc. good visibility. > >> And sadly, in another indictment of human nature, I suspect that >> hard-hitting TV commercials educating folks to the dangers of speeding >> have far less effect on the numbers speeding than the fear of >> punishment. > > Very possibly. Is this because people have got too used to being > provided half the facts and knowing the "results" from the data don't > always mean very much? No, it's because people can invariably find an excuse for doing things they know are wrong, but very few of them are prepared to continually behave like that while being fined, banned and ultimately jailed. Sean -- music, film, comics, books, rants and drivel: www.funkygibbins.me.uk -- Next meeting: Bournemouth? TBD, Wednesday 2010-10-06 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://bit.ly/4sACa
