Jane's posting brings two thoughts to mind. First, there are scientists who feel that you have no right to use their published results without their permission. On one occasion I even had a colleague within DFO lodge a formal internal protest because I used his data from an international journal in a paper of my own (fully attributed of course). The complaint was of course dismissed, and the idea that one could not publish a paper refuting someone else's work without their permission is absurd.

The other has to do with the idea of copying as stealing. Copyright owners believe that they have absolute control over their intellectual property, and legally this is pretty much the case, but this is not widely respected. Some restrictions, such as that of someone who decided that his software could only be used by white christian gentlemen, probably would not stand up in court. But others, that restrict access even though there is no loss to the copyright holder, are not widely seen as reasonable and are therefore not respected - this accounts for a fair share of what legally is piracy. Examples include the widespread copying of old material that is no longer for sale, such as old computer games like Pong and discontinued recordings, those in "cut-out limbo". Recent extension of the copyright term has made this situation worse. Other practices, such as that of Hollywood studios which buy up the rights to classic movies and suppress them so that they can turn them into corny blockbusters, are really abusive to the whole concept of creativity which copyright is supposed to protect. (For example, a major studio bought up the entire Marcel Pagnol trilogy and pulled it from the screens so that they could make their own version of "Fanny".)

The distorted publicity given to some cases of copyright violation has further weakened the posture of copyright holders. Why do software companies go after teen-age kids with shelves full of cracks of protected software and not after the businessmen who who run whole typing pools on a single pirated copy of an office suite? Do they really think that if the kids were not pirates they would pay the millions of dollars that they claim as theft losses?

So I think that what it boils down to is that although copyright law grants all kinds of legal protection, the guideline that most of us follow is the one that Jane puts forward, copying is really considered theft only when there is an actual loss involved - money, prestige, etc. Copying a CD or DVD instead of buying it is theft, but if a CD is not available for sale, why enforce the copyright? If a grad student uses your photo in a presentation and doesn't pay you for it, what have you lost (unless the student might really be willing and able to pay for it)?

I should however add that there are a lot of photos relevant to ecology that really are commercial. Aside from those taken by professionals, which are often sold to publications like National Geographic, I have discovered that very few photos of gelatinous cnidarians are available for free. I recently searched the ASLO website for photos of ctenophores and siphonophores and found almost none. A colleague explained to me that most of the photos are taken commercially and are only for sale, which is perhaps not surprising given the work involved - also of course photos are often the primary data in studies of these animals.

I respect the rights of those who expect to profit from their work and who lose out when their photos or other materials are copied or stolen. But if there is no real loss involved, I am not very sympathetic, and I also think that when a copy is properly acknowledged, they benefit even if they did not give prior authorisation.

Bill Silvert


----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Shevtsov" <jane....@gmail.com>
To: <ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] stealing from websites


Jim,

Please note that what follows is meant mainly as a general discussion
of intellectual property, not of your particular case.

"Why would you think that you can use my hard work without asking?"

For the same reason you can cite or quote a paper of mine without
asking -- even if you're using it to make a case I strongly disagree
with. (That case is not directly analogous, as you wouldn't be copying
the entire paper, but then if I use a photo of yours in a
presentation, it'll only be on screen for 30 seconds or so.) Moreover,
you can make copies of my paper and give them to students or
colleagues without my permission. They can read the paper or use it to
line the birdcage. If I'm sending you, say, a prepublication copy as a
favor, I can ask you not to redistribute it, but once it's published,
it's out of my hands.

I am honestly intrigued by how people come to think of copying as
stealing. If I walk into your house and steal your TV, you no longer
have a TV. If I use a photo from your website and credit you, what
have you lost? Now, the situation is different if you are a
professional photographer and rely on photography to make money. Then
the problem becomes truly difficult -- and beyond the scope of ECOLOG!
(But keep in mind that hardly anyone is going to pay for a photo for a
presentation. If it's not free, I'm just not going to use it.)

Don't worry -- I'm not actually going to use anything from your
website. You can set whatever conditions you want and, morally and
legally, I have to abide by them. But this line of discussion is
closely related to that about access to the scientific literature.
BTW, why do you set such restrictive conditions on who can use your
photos?

Best,
Jane

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