Would that I were well trained in a traditional scientific paradigm (I
mean had some concrete steps learned by rote upon which I could base
my work.)  As it is, I have a passing knowledge and it is just as
tiresome to observe and work straight from those as it is to try to
formulate hypotheses and methods then analyze the conclusions.  I
never got to repeat things over and over to really become one with
them.  Established methods are really helpful.  They provide a
foundation, a rock, something solid to turn to, when you are wracking
your brain and getting really nervous that you have to come up with
something by a deadline.  I know haphazard adult modeling in my
upbringing led to poor acquirement of such skills.  Hence, I value
them highly.  It is possible to think within a rigid system (I want to
say Shostakovich, but am not sure I know enough to securely bring this
up).

Regarding the initial post on naturefaking:  I think an element of
accuracy and good metaphorical ties to human life help to sell what is
not completely accurate.  This could be disturbing or just how things
are.  I am not sure it could be taken positively.

Sincerely,

Jennifer Jones



...and having looked a bit at the wikipedia Shostakovich article and
the link below, I say that I am not advocating dictatorship.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfuh9F029UA&list=QL&feature=BF


On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 3:56 AM, William Silvert <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm a bit of a fish out of water here, since my background is physics, not
> ecology, and physicists do not follow "the traditional scientific paradigm,
> simply stated, to first objectively observe, then formulate a hypothesis
> based on those observations, then collect data to test that hypothesis". The
> group of "some scientists [who] tend to come up with a hypothesis or concept
> first, then look for information that supports that hypothesis or concept"
> includes some of the more admired physicists such as Albert Einstein
> (relativity) and Murray Gell-Mann (quarks) and many others.
>
> Although some physcists turn to philosphical issues as they age, notably
> Hans Reichenbach, most seem to just worry about finding out how things work
> without following the textbook patterns of how science should be done.
> Probably the worst offenders are the cosmologists! Einstein once said
> "Nature is subtle but not malicious" and I think that ths implies that in
> order to ferret out her secrets we need to be subtle ourselves and not
> simply follow straightforward paradigms (and please, no more quibbles about
> my translation of Herr Gott!).
>
> As for the "Bambi-derived view of nature", that is often the easy part. To
> get into the gritty details can involve a lot more work, and that can lead
> to fakery. It is easy to film impala calmly grazing, getting a good shot of
> one being taken by a big cat is not so easy. It is easy to film penguins
> marching along on a calm sunny day, but getting a video of them guarding
> eggs in a terrible antarctic storm with white-out is another matter.
>
> Bill Silvert
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Warren W. Aney" <[email protected]>
> To: "'William Silvert'" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
> Sent: segunda-feira, 27 de Setembro de 2010 5:24
> Subject: RE: [ECOLOG-L] Naturefaking in media
>
>
>> Isn't the traditional scientific paradigm, simply stated, to first
>> objectively observe, then formulate a hypothesis based on those
>> observations, then collect data to test that hypothesis?
>>
>> Journalists, documentarians, revisionist historians and maybe even some
>> scientists tend to come up with a hypothesis or concept first, then look
>> for
>> information that supports that hypothesis or concept, resulting in a
>> somewhat biased product or predetermined finding.
>>
>> There is probably nothing very wrong with the media doing a little staging
>> if it's based on sound scientific findings, but too much of the
>> naturefaking
>> I've seen is based on an overly dramatic, Bambi-derived view of nature. It
>> may entertain, but it doesn't educate and it does misinform.
>>
>> And I admit knowing very little about fuzzy logic (educate me, Bill), but
>> it
>> would seem particularly important that gainful applications of fuzzy logic
>> would need to start out with objectivity as a prime guiding principle.
>> Yes,
>> subjectivity is always present, but science needs to recognize this and
>> take
>> measures to minimize its influence.
>>
>> Warren W. Aney
>> Tigard, Oregon
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news
>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Silvert
>> Sent: Sunday, 26 September, 2010 13:30
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Naturefaking in media
>>
>> I thank Dave for his posting, which addresses the controversial topic of
>> subjectivity in science. Many scientists condemn any hint of subjectivity
>> even though it is always present. I have run into this a lot because I
>> have
>> been advocating the use of fuzzy logic, which is often rejected out of
>> hand
>> because of the overtones of subjectivity.
>>
>> It is intersting that reference to paradigms does not generate the same
>> hostility, even though the concept implies that the whole field is prone
>> to
>> subjective bias!
>>
>> Bill Silvert
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David M. Lawrence" <[email protected]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: domingo, 26 de Setembro de 2010 17:02
>> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Naturefaking in media
>>
>>
>>>  Scientists do "story selection" all the time, though they may be
>>> reluctant to admit it.  They (we) select the hypotheses to be tested,
>>> then select the subjects, data to be collected, field and analytical
>>> methods, presentation methods, etc.  It's not much different than
>>> what documentary filmmakers or journalists do.  All are choices
>>> driven by the need to make the best use of the medium you are
>>> communicating in.
>>>
>>> Scientists shouldn't be so blind to the "subjectivity" that goes into
>>> their work.  Such blindness, as we have seen in the scientific
>>> controversy
>>
>>> over the past few years, has helped feed the erosion of credibility that
>>> many institutions in our society have felt.
>>>
>>> Dave

Structures strictures, though they bind, strangely liberate the mind.

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