My personal experience with USOPM and applications: I have applied for many positions with the Feds since 2003. I have reached the interview stage 6-10 times. During that time I was offered two positions. One I turned down because I could not justify to myself leaving my courses half-way through the semester (they could not delay it), and the other was in Wash DC (at the time I didn't know how urban DC was!).
About a half-dozen of my applications were incorrectly labeled as unqualified due to not having a BS, MS or PHD. That problem has now been corrected as the selection process was altered this past year. >From this experience, I do not think that a lot of hiring is done inappropriately. However, I think some of the procedures they follow were so carefully planned to avoid favoritism, that they actually are counter-productive. \ Either way, the feds are a different lifestyle from academia. In some ways (from my communications with friends there) it is very similar, but I believe your freedoms of speech and pursuit of inquiry are more restricted. :) On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 7:41 PM, jon mccloskey <[email protected]> wrote: > Kyle, > > My comments were not directed at you personally. I just feel that the time > is long overdue that we not keep accepting these "very restrictive" rules > (not just hiring practices) and stand up and do something. Otherwise, as we > see by this discussion, good people leave the system completely or simply > give up and accept the "rules", thereby enabling a system that remains > essentially impotent to facilitate change and innovation. As an Ecologist, > I'm sure that you can see the pattern of self organization (creating > conditions for ones own success) fueled by a lack of diversity, good > thinking, etc. that allows these "rules" to remain. From my knowledge, > broken systems only correct themselves through strong leadership...or crisis. > We have at least some control over our leadership. > > They can fire one person, but it would be hard to ignore a large group of > past and present federal employees. From my experience, people in these > agencies are, for the most part, hard working and good people (yourself > included I'm sure). Some are very good friends of mine, and they all have > great ideas for improving things (not just hiring practices)...the thing they > lack is organization...and as they get older, the will to fight. > > P.S. I am a practical, but cynical old bastard and believe that if you can > think it, then it is possible. So, if any of you younger folks ever decide > to stand up and fight, I'll be right there with you. I have tried for years > and have even been black listed by certain people in both Academia and the > Agencies. I work for a non-profit now (they have their faults too, but > appear a little more open minded). I recently spent some time in Tibet, > Africa, and China and believe me there are people in the world who need > help...but this will not happen unless we stand up against broken > systems...not broken parts, but broken systems. > > For now, I'm with Ms. Cox and will enjoy time with my son and try to teach > him the value of standing up to bullies disguised as weak managers, policy > makers, and politicians > > Jon McCloskey, Ph.D. > > > >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected]; [email protected] >> Subject: RE: [ECOLOG-L] Job Announcement: US Forest Service Ecologist >> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 17:23:49 +0000 >> >> What a great discussion! I won't try to defend federal hiring practices >> here, but I will try to defend myself. I certainly would not have gone to >> the effort of posting this on Ecolog if I had someone lined up to fill it. >> I posted this announcement because I wanted to widely advertise this >> position given that is unfortunately only open for 10 days. Our new hiring >> rules are very restrictive, and I wanted to ensure we had the best pool of >> candidates possible given these constraints. Although many people on Ecolog >> may not be eligible for this position, I took the risk of posting it in case >> there were folks out there I hadn't been able to reach through other >> channels. >> >> I may be a fair-haired, pencil-pushing clone, but I sincerely want to >> recruit the best possible person for this position! >> >> Sincerely, Kyle Merriam >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jon mccloskey >> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 4:15 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Job Announcement: US Forest Service Ecologist >> >> To Whom it May Concern, >> >> I rarely respond to these futile discussion, but felt the need this time. >> >> These type of practices have been going on for at least 20 years (my first >> job was in 1992)...and we wonder why the system remains impotent. Filling >> positions with clones that think exactly like their predecessors is not >> likely to result in change or innovation...people talk about systems >> thinking, but few really understand it. >> >> I feel sorry for the poor souls who will, no doubt, spend considerable time >> and effort in the application process. I guess it keeps the pencil pushers >> employed. >> >> Remember, follow the incentives. The money comes from the tax payers, these >> are NOT entrepreneurial efforts and are largely self serving. >> >> Good Luck, >> >> Jon McCloskey, Ph.D. >> >> >> >> > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 07:34:31 -0400 >> > From: [email protected] >> > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Job Announcement: US Forest Service Ecologist >> > To: [email protected] >> > >> > Dear Wayne, although I am not a federal employee I have watched >> > federal hiring practices and seen ads like this before that have >> > nothing to do with "fair-haired boys" or girls. What they have >> > everything to do with is getting people on board before drastic budget >> > cuts occur so that you don't automatically lose funding by having >> > money sitting around for an unfilled position. cheers, g2 >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > Hmmmm--I'd be willing to bet there's a fair-haired boy or girl >> > > waiting in the wings and that it would be a waste of time to apply. >> > > I hope I'm wrong, but really, TEN days? Read the advertisement >> > > carefully. It will be interesting to see who is hired . . . >> > > >> > > WT >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kyle Merriam" >> > > <[email protected]> >> > > To: <[email protected]> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 3:39 PM >> > > Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Job Announcement: US Forest Service Ecologist >> > > >> > > >> > > The USDA Forest Service Sierra Cascade Province, comprised of the >> > > Modoc, Lassen, and Plumas National Forests in northeastern >> > > California, is currently advertising a one-year detail position for >> > > a GS-11 Associate Ecologist ($57,408.00 - $74,628.00 per year). >> > > This position is a temporary promotion/detail for one year, which >> > > may be extended for up to five years and/or be made permanent >> > > without further competition. This position is open to current Career >> > > and Career-Conditional status Forest Service employees. >> > > >> > > This vacancy will be open for 10 days, beginning on 8/16/2011 and >> > > closing on 8/26/2011. More information about the position and how to >> > > apply is posted on www.usajobs.gov. Find the announcement by >> > > searching for Ecologist in Quincy, CA and by checking "all jobs, >> > > public and status" on the right of the results screen. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Gary D. Grossman, PhD >> > >> > Professor of Animal Ecology >> > Warnell School of Forestry & Natural Resources University of Georgia >> > Athens, GA, USA 30602 >> > >> > Research & teaching web site - >> > http://grossman.myweb.uga.edu/<http://www.arches.uga.edu/%7Egrossman> >> > >> > Board of Editors - Animal Biodiversity and Conservation Editorial >> > Board - Freshwater Biology Editorial Board - Ecology Freshwater Fish >> > >> > Sculpture by Gary D. Grossman >> > www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/album.php?aid=2002317&id=1348406658<http: >> > //www.facebook.com/?ref=home#%21/album.php?aid=2002317&id=1348406658> >> > >> > Hutson Gallery Provincetown, MA - www.hutsongallery.net/artists.html >> > > > -- Malcolm L. McCallum Oceania University of Medicine Managing Editor, Herpetological Conservation and Biology "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - Allan Nation 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, and pollution. 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction MAY help restore populations. 2022: Soylent Green is People! 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