I'm sorry, but I think we're mixing apples and oranges here. There are a ton of variations in what you can do with EDI, and a big customer should expect to have to deal with suppliers about "the same things over and over again...". AS2 software is nothing like that. You exchange certificates and the requisite setup information, and turn it on. If it works, great. If it doesn't, then it's the supplier's problem and you tell them to try again when their vendor has fixed the problem. You don't work with the vendor to debug the problem, or describe what it is much more than a cursory description of whatever errors your system reports.
Mike At 03:16 PM 8/5/2005 -0500, Travis Truax wrote: >I understand your point, however we have some customers that know far less >than we do about EDI. Supplier.....Customer......it's just about who has the >most clout. (And I have none to speak of.) > >Travis- > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 1:22 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [EDI-L] Re: <Tech> Sears, Penney's AS2 usage > > >Just to put things in perspective as I'm in no way defending the >certification process or SPS Commerce as I'm sure Walmart would be happy >to recieve the fee's to pay a years salary of an EDI coordinator to >manually fix uncertified mistakes per connection/vendor. >The perspective is most people who speak up on this list are from the >Vendor or Supplier side of the exchange. Being from the big customer >side before, from a big customer perspective it's like you have all >these Trading Partners who don't know EDI and constantly explaining the >same things over and over again about how you want thing done to support >a single process model. And everybody making their pitch about wanting >to do it differently and how they are exceptionally different. > >Regards, >-Steve > >Travis Truax wrote: > > >>>why would companies like Walmart use Drummond if it was not > >>>necessary and cost-effective? > >>> > >>> > > > >Bob, you must be joking! YES it is cost-effective to them! At the expense >of > >everyone else. They most likely got FREE software! Don't think that it's >the > >best way for everyone just because that's the way it was done, just > >understand that it was the best way for the people that made the decisions. > > > > > > > > > >>>In many RFCs, the tests are published and don't need expensive > >>> > >>> > >certification. > > > > > >>>Perhaps HTTP or ftp is a simplistic comparison, but they are easy to test > > >>>without expensive 'certification', and either work correctly, or do not. > >>> > >>> > > > >No doubt Earl. That's how RFCs work. Building on one another. The AS2 specs > >reference other RFCs, so Earl- you should setup a group to verify them too. > >(I believe this was already mentioned by someone.) > > > >Travis- > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Bob Frank [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:52 AM > >To: [email protected] > >Cc: Ricardo Johnson > >Subject: Re: [EDI-L] Re: <Tech> Sears, Penney's AS2 usage > > > > > >Thanks to all for the candid responses to my post. > > > >1. S/MIME for EDI (EDIINT) and ASx were created and > >implemented by experienced EDI and Internet people who > >fully understood X12.58. They found X12.58 not to be > >optimal for open Internet use. X12.58 was designed > >before Internet options were available. Naturally, > >X12.58 was sponsored by VAN advocates based on the > >traditional VAN infrastructures and business > >interests. I was among the group that pioneered > >Internet EDI using PEM and S/MIME messaging in > >1989-1993 (before the browsers) and I still advocate > >that a mix of S/MIME and ASx provides the best value > >options to the broadest range of groups. > > > >2. When any type of effective security is implemented, > >some type of testing/verification is > >needed--regardless of the technology/techniques > >involved. The issue is mutual trust by the community > >of trading parties, and that requires both initial > >validation and periodic re-validation to ensure it is > >working as required. The time, tools, and personal > >expertise needed to do competent testing and/or > >certification can be done internally or by third > >parties, but the functions are not free. > > > >3. Having worked for the government for many years, I > >much prefer that small, private companies be the > >source of testing and certification functions for > >things like security and transaction integrity. But, > >without market competition, the price is bound to be > >too high. Where are the cheaper alternatives to > >Drummond's ASx certification services, and why would > >companies like Walmart use Drummond if it was not > >necessary and cost-effective? Is anyone from Walmart > >willing to comment on this? > > > >Robert Frank > >(Retired EDI Consultant) > > > >--- Ricardo Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > >>Not only is the idea of 'certification' by a private > >>consultant/group completely absurd, but the whole > >>ASx standard itself is highly questionable: Why > >>would you want to wrap EDI envelopes with MIME > >>envelopes, secure them with S/MIME (thus encryting > >>EDI IDs and qualifiers), and acknowledge receipt of > >>MIME evelopes (disrigarding their EDI content), when > >>you can accomplish all that and much more with EDI > >>security (X12.58 or EDIFACT) and acknowledgements. > >>EDI security allows for fully secured and > >>acknowledged exchanges (acknowledging EDI content > >>and conformance) regardles of the communications > >>media and protocol (because EDI IDs and qualifiers > >>are left unencrypted). > >> > >>I don't know whether Drummond has any international > >>acceptance or compliance (other than Wal-Mart). But > >>EDI security is used extensively in Finance, > >>Customs, and Invoicing in Canada, Latin America, > >>Australia, Europe and Asia. Even most US Banks have > >>been using X12.58 for years. EDI security has no > >>cost for 'certification' and the technology is > >>better suited for EDI transactions. Perhaps volume > >>and competition could make it much less expensive > >>than ASx. > >> > >>So, why re-invent the wheel only to come up with a > >>less efficient version? You may want to ask the > >>Drummond Group. You may also want to ask them why > >>the $60K initial + $25K/year fees ? > >> > >>Ricardo > >> > >> > >>--------------------------------- > >> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > >> > >> > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been > >>removed] > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________ > >Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > >http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. > >Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject prefix: > ><SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC> > >Access the list online at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. > >Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject prefix: ><SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC> > >Access the list online at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >. >Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject prefix: ><SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC> >Access the list online at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >. >Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject prefix: ><SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC> >Access the list online at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- Michael C. Rawlins, Rawlins EC Consulting www.rawlinsecconsulting.com Using XML with Legacy Business Applications (Addison-Wesley, 2003) www.awprofessional.com/titles/0321154940 ------------------------ Yahoo! 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