"Dennis Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > >This is an interesting discussion, but the line between a spreadsheet and > >stats package is not so clear-cut these days. If you look at how the major > >stats packages have developed over the last decade, you can see how they > >have copied more and more features from Excel. In fact almost all stats > >packages now boast of containing a fully featured built-in spreadsheet for > >data entry. > > certainly minitab makes no such claim ... their worksheet is NOT a spreadsheet
The Minitab worksheet is for all intents & purposes a spreadsheet, albeit a "structured" spreadsheet to accept a dataset and variables in columnar format. > >Looking at the situation from another angle, why can't a spreadsheet be used > >for statistical analysis? Granted, some of Excel's built-in statistical > >functions leave a lot to be desired and should be used with care. But the > >Excel spreadsheet package is still head-and-shoulders above any other > >similar product in terms of ease of use, data entry and collection, > >presentation, programming interfaces, and it's excellent integration with > >the other Office applications. > > so, i am not sure this has anything to do with statistical analysis It doesn't, but my point was that a stats package is based around a spreadsheet (most of which plagiarize Excel), so why can't a good spreadsheet package (like Excel) be the basis of a stats package? There is no reason why it can't! > >A reliable low-cost statistics add-on for Excel can easily bypass these > >problems. > > unfortunately though, it does not exist > > here are the major problems with using excel as a stat package including > 3rd party plugins (off the top of my head) > > 1. poor data MANAGEMENT capabilities > 2. poor and HIGHLY LIMITED graphics > 3. highly limited set of routines to select from > 4. inability to work with any/many random generation functions (for > distributions) > 5. limited access to important statistical tables The needs of an individual user vary and I think that is never considered in these discussions. Most of the above does not apply to the vast majority of "less statistically minded" people wanting a statistics package that covers all the basic "undergraduate level" stats functions that they need in education or business. As with everything, you get what you pay for, and the low US$100 price of an Excel add-on stats package compares very well against a starting price of over US$500 for a "proper" stats package which includes nothing extra that such a user might need. And this is just for a comparable package, not for the advanced statistical modules which can cost thousands of $. Points 1, 4 and 5 and not a concern for most users. Excel includes more than enough data management tools, including PivotTables, although it does lack the Stack/Split functions of stats packages. Points 4 & 5 are not applicable to most users, only to advanced statistical researchers or for educational purposes. Point 3 depends on what kind of statistical analysis you require and is the same with any software. Excel add-ons do not cater for everything, but the wealth of add-ons for statistics, forecasting, and SPC cover all the areas where statistics are needed in business. Finally, point 2 is debatable considering the lack of decent graphics and still ASCII output of many of the older-generation stats packages. Granted, the formatting of Excel's charts by default is not very helpful, and this is an area that needs some attention. But until a few years ago, Minitab only included a graphical histogram & bell-curve after a user developed a macro to do it, which Minitab then incorporated into the shipped version! > from discussions like this on several lists, it is clear that no argument > pro or con will sway those who have opted for or agin using excel as the > statistical analysis tool > > but, each side keeps trying The reason I responded was to bring some "balance" to the discussion, which I think is always lacking in these discussions of Excel vs. Stats packages. I believe those against Excel, the statisticians, will never be swayed and nor should they because Excel does not offer the kind of advanced statistical research that some need. But equally, those now using Excel should be aware of the options available for statistics within Excel and the advantages that brings. _____________________________________ James Huntington, ..Analyse-it Software, Ltd. ......................................................... Analyse-it! accurate low-cost statistical software for Microsoft Excel. For more information & to download a free evaluation, visit us: http://www.analyse-it.com ================================================================= Instructions for joining and leaving this list, remarks about the problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES, and archives are available at http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/ =================================================================
