> Hence, the comment about an OpenSource WebSphere making EJB commodity
> level is pure BS. IMNSHO we at jBoss are way ahead of them in that
> endeavour (see http://www.jboss.org/game_over.htm). A product such as
> WebSphere which is very very rarely mentioned in the same sentence as
> the word "excellent" is not likely to pull that off. Sorry guys, but
> it's not gonna happen that way.
Well, you may want to consider the fact that WebSphere has already
implemented some "minor" technical details like clustering or a full
blown transaction manager, as well as a certain number of other
features that are still missing in JBoss. Keep up the good work, and
good luck for JBoss, but don't underestimate the funtionality that
is available today in commercial products on the market. You will have
to match it if you want to be considered an alternative.
Also, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". So, please be
accurate in your technical statements and be sure you know what you are
talking about. After looking at your web site and at your code, I would
like to point out that most of the features that are mentioned as "current
battlefields" for JBoss are available in WebSphere for more than a year.
I concede that you have some nice features in JBoss, e.g. the AutoDeploy,
but I claim that these features are comparatively simple and do not make
up for the significant lack of more advanced technical functionality in
your current code base. Want details? Think clustering with affinity
management, distributed transaction management, even simple servlet
integration, security/PKI, complex CMP mappings covering inheritance,
RAS services like tracing & logging, etc. All this is supported today
in WebSphere (Advanced & Enterprise; some of it is in Standard as well).
> (which many seem to realize, because you would be amazed by the number
> of ex-EJB-vendor-employees that help us out currently. Leave the boat
> while its still sinking and not at the bottom of the ocean guys)
It may come as a surprise to you that WebSphere is one of the market
leaders according to Giga's June 2000 report on EJB servers and is
growing much faster than the competition (cf.
http://www-4.ibm.com/software/webservers/giga0600.pdf). This is not
my personal view, or IBM's view for that matter, but Giga's view. I
wish I could say as much of your statement.
> So no, IBM OpenSourcing WebSphere Standard Edition is not going to make
> other vendors consider OpenSource. They are OpenSourcing because
> otherwise they will die. They need to have something to hook people into
> their sales and marketing spiral, and SE is the perfect "freebie".
>
> I mean, really?? Is the word "customer oriented" not popular anymore? Is
> "shareholder oriented" the game of the day?
As you point out, IBM might open up the source of WebSphere Standard
Edition as a means to attract developers. You also seem to imply that
this is somehow "unethical". Now, what is the difference between this
potential business model for IBM and the de facto business model of
Telkel of which you are an employee and (presumably) a shareholder?
For everybody else on the list, Telkel offers services for JBoss and
its economic success depends pretty much on the marketshare of JBoss.
I don't have a problem with the idea that you try to make money from
what you are doing. However, I don't think the implicit assertion that
IBM is the big bad corporation that is only exploring the Open Source
idea for profit is fair. Many companies, large and small, are really
doing very similar things in this space, under only slightly different
labels.
>
> Blah.
>
> We have the people.
> We have the technology.
> We have the vision.
> We have the ideas.
> And for each day each of these grow stronger, almost exponentially.
Great. Why don't you spend your time implementing all these exciting
new features in JBoss rather than starting flamewars on this list?
Because visions and ideas are typically too abstract to be useful.
> regards,
> Rickard
>
> ps oh, almost forgot </flamebait>. Fire away 8-)
>
> --
> Rickard �berg
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.telkel.com
> http://www.jboss.org
> http://www.dreambean.com
Regards
Rainer
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Rainer Kerth, IBM WebSphere Architecture, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: opinions expressed in this posting are personal, and do
not engage IBM.
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