Dear Edward, I concur with your comments regarding central differences between sales and compliance expertise. It is clear to me that Russians have learned to speak with sales people in their own language. However, I respectfully disagree with your opening statement. The better one gets familiarized with the rooles of the game, the easier to deal with players. The Russians have not invented any new wheels, so to say. In my opinion, their standardization system and certification procedures are somewhat cloning European, particularly, German. Do not forget that they have always participated in the work of all International Standardization Committees. It has resulted in IEC publishing all documents in four languages including Russian.
In fact, many of us here have heard foreign experts' criticism of U.S. certification processes and interpretation confusion. Let us be objective. Again, in my humble opinion, Russians are relatively cooperative (compare with Korea, Taiwan, and how about Japan where you have to pay annual $2,500.00 VCCI membership fee to obtain a VCCI certificate). As always, dealing with right people is more productive and less painful. As an alternative, U.S. companies should diligently look for independent laboratories here, in the U.S., who have been accredited by GOSSTANDART. These enterprises have for years participated in the U.S.-Russia Business Development Committee and, particularly, the U.S.-Russia Standards Working Group. Best Regards > -----Original Message----- > From: Edward Fitzgerald [SMTP:edward.fitzger...@ets-tele.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 3:14 AM > To: 'Maxwell, Chris' > Cc: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) > Subject: RE: Russian Certification of Products > > > Dear Chris, > > Only one rule is common throughout this region (and you should keep > reminding yourself of it)... > ... and it is that there are no rules! > > Well okay, there is a framework of rules and Laws that you must operate > within, but these are loosely interpreted and the game is how you > operate within that framework. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to > paint a negative picture or sell anyone my firm's services - I'm just > saying it how it is. > > Do not be mistaken that any amount of test data you already hold will > reduce the certification costs payable to the labs/test centres in > Russia, this will just make life a little easier for you (well > relatively) as it is a documentation intensive. > > I must concur with Vitaly's comments and also add that you should not > let your sales people do the negotiation for you! They may be shrewd > when closing deals with customers, but they are negotiating within their > own field of expertise - approvals and certification is completely > different. They may get what they perceive is a good deal, but it'll be > more than you should be paying. > > Please also note that the contracts will state that the visiting Russian > Engineers must be paid around 100 USD per day for expenses - in reality > this is pocket money, as your company will already be paying for > flights, accommodation, other travel costs, entertainment and > subsistence in addition to the contract price! So the number of > engineers and the length of their visit(s) also have the potential of > the overall costs. > > I've produced an explanatory overview for our clients, let me know if > you'd like a copy. > > Best regards, Edward > > Edward Fitzgerald > Director > Direct Tel. : +44 1202 20 09 22 > GSM Tel. : +44 7768 53 31 00 > European Technology Services (EMEA) > Specialist Global Compliance and Regulatory Consultancy > Regional Offices in Australia, Canada and the UK. > GLOBAL INtelLIGENCE Site < http://www.ets-tele.com/tics > psst ... > spread the word ! > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Maxwell, Chris [mailto:chr...@gnlp.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 8:54 PM > To: 'EMC-PSTC Internet Forum' > Subject: Russian Certification of Products > > > > Our sales people in Russia have started the process of "Certifying" our > equipment to sell in Russia. The two agencies that they are working > with > are "Gosstandart" and the "Ministry of Communication". > > According to them, the certification will consist of an inspection of > all of > our existing Compliance Documentation including ISO-9000 certification, > EMC > Test Data (for the products of interest), Safety Test Data (for the > products > of interest), Environmental Test Data including heat, frost, moisture, > vibration, and blow (what is that?) along with other inspections of our > calibration equipment and methods. We are also being asked to pay for a > trip to the US for 3 people from the Ministry of Communication and > Gosstandart (6 people total) for 7 days each. > > The total is a staggering $44,000 (either cash or wire transfer). Note > that all of the actions being performed for this are "inspections" of > existing documentation, not actual testing. So in the end, they will > decide to certify our products based upon existing documentation, > testing... > I have never experienced this before. It appears to be a great deal of > expense for not much substance. Is this typical? Has anybody else out > there certified products with these agencies? > > By the way, we typically classify our product as "light industrial test > and > measurement equipment" and already have solid testing and documentation > to > to EN 61326-1 (EMC), EN 61010-1 (Safety) and EN 60825-1 (Laser Safety). > Does this give us any kind of out? > > Chris Maxwell, Design Engineer > GN Nettest Optical Division > 109 N. Genesee St. > Utica, NY 13502 > PH: 315-797-4449 > FAX: 315-797-8024 > EMAIL: chr...@gnlp.com > > > > ------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > > ------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > ------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. 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