Hi Dennis, you cite a likely scenario, however I still maintain that this is the exception rather than the rule.
Cheers, Derek. On 1/25/2011 12:47 AM, Dennis Ward wrote: > Actually I think we are talking about two sides of a coin. The lab side > generally knows and understands what his equipment does and how to properly > test, but sometimes forgets that his responsibility is to show the rest of > industry that his equipment and testing practices are actually doing what > they are supposed to do. > > The assessor knows and understands what is needed to show that equipment > works properly, but sometimes forgets that his responsibility is not to > nitpick a thing to death, but to gather sufficient information to only > provide and establish believability in the labs system. > > These two almost opposite roles sometimes cause friction. You can have a > lab that gets infuriated when anyone dares suggest or question if they know > the exact when, where, how and why of data taking. And you can have an > assessor that gets his knickers twisted when the lab provides less than > adequate proof to show compliance to the accreditation standard. > > I have been in many many assessments and for the most part both lab and > assessor do know what they are doing, but contention still exists simply > because they are on two opposites sides of the QA coin. > > The lab simply needs to understand that you cannot just rely on 'my > equipment works so that the end of it' and the assessor needs to understand > that you cannot cross every t and dot every i everytime an assessment is > done. > > Dennis Ward > > Director of Engineering > American Certification Body > Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry http://www.acbcert.com > 703-847-4700 fax 703-847-6888 > direct - 703-880-4841 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Owsley > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 7:14 PM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: RE: my last lab audit > > Thanks for the reminder about old Foghorn! I had nearly forgotten him. > > Attitude is Mind over Matter. > If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... > This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure > virgin photons. > > > > --- On Mon, 1/24/11, Brian O'Connell<[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: Brian O'Connell<[email protected]> >> Subject: RE: my last lab audit >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 5:35 PM >> <Foghorn Leghorn voice> >> That's a joke, I say, that's a joke, son. >> </Foghorn Leghorn voice> >> >> The auditor's manger only reply was "ROTFLMAO" when I sent >> this >> conversation; so I decided to attempt the same result from >> this august >> forum. >> >> Most auditors are too dazed and confused to be power >> tripping. >> >> Brian >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]]On >> Behalf Of Doug >> > Kramer >> > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 1:50 PM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: RE: my last lab audit >> > >> > Larry, >> > Well stated, except for the power trip comment. >> > -Doug >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf >> > Of Larry Stillings >> > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 2:37 PM >> > To: '[email protected]'; >> [email protected] >> > Subject: RE: my last lab audit >> > >> > Brian, >> > >> > Hire a new auditor. I know, easier >> said then done. >> > >> > I lot of them are on a power trip, >> that's why they are auditors. >> > >> > Basically, you need to contact >> whomever runs your particular >> > accreditation body and talk to them. Remember you are >> a >> > paying customer, and >> > have options to whom your choose for your audits. >> > >> > Larry >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:[email protected]] >> >> > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:31 PM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: my last lab audit >> > >> > auditor: Your software does not meet 17025 - no test >> data. >> > >> > me: 'That' software is only for a windoze HMI, no >> data being >> > collected, no >> > data being analyzed, no data processed. >> > >> > auditor: But it displays test parameters. >> > >> > me: There are no reports or design decisions or TRFs >> being >> > made from this >> > displayed data. Instruments are calibrated and >> tracible, and >> > the program >> > that acquires and processes the data is subject to >> audit and >> > a regression >> > series for each rev. Here is the last CIG which >> included all >> > test driver software. >> > >> > auditor: I want to see the 17025-based tests for >> 'this' software. >> > >> > me: Here is my test data (hand auditor the HMI source >> code). >> > >> > auditor: What am I supposed to do with this? I do not >> know >> > anything about programming. >> > >> > Brian >> >> - >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering >> Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the >> list, send your e-mail to<[email protected]> >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the >> web at: >> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ >> Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be >> posted to that URL. >> >> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Scott Douglas<[email protected]> >> Mike Cantwell<[email protected]> >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Jim Bacher:<[email protected]> >> David Heald:<[email protected]> >> > > > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > <[email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ > Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that > URL. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas<[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell<[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher:<[email protected]> > David Heald:<[email protected]> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to<[email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ > Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas<[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell<[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher:<[email protected]> > David Heald:<[email protected]> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]>
