Ted, I understand where you are coming from, but I am still of the view that your approach (as described in your e-mail) is fundamentally flawed since it implies that the scope of the directive is determined by the applicability or otherwise of one or more standards, and this is never the case. Yes, you can use the existence of a standard as an indicator as to what constitutes a domestic appliance, but it is never a conclusive factor on its own.
It is also important to realise that there are many 'domestic appliance' standards (e.g. parts of the EN 60335-1 series) which are harmonised under the Machinery Directive instead of or as well as the LVD. Annex ZF in EN 60335-1 attempts to address this point, but I'm far from convinced that it is completely successful. Your point about toys is valid in the context of my reply - I was in a bit of a hurry earlier and overlooked the fact that (as correctly pointed out by Carl Newton) it is article 3 of 2006/42/EC which deals with more specific directives, this is not part of Article 1. However, if I were to change my phrase to: "To put it in its simplest terms, if a product has powered moving parts then, irrespective of the status or otherwise of any standards, it is within the scope of the Machinery Directive unless it is excluded by one of the clauses in Article 1 or by Article 3. That's all there is to it." I would be correct since both the Toy Safety Directive and the Medical Devices Directive are more specific. (As it happens, the Medical Devices Directive actually says that for products which are machines, you also have to apply the EHSRs of the Machinery Directive alongside those of the Medical Devices Directive, but that's a topic for another day!) Regards Nick. On 30 Apr 2012, at 18:13, Ted Eckert wrote: > I am proposing using the harmonized standards as guidance, not as an absolute > determination. Article 1, Clause 2(k) gives specific exemptions including > “household appliances intended for domestic use”. How can you be sure your > product is a household appliance reasonably covered by the LVD? If there is a > harmonized standard under the LVD, then you at least have a good argument to > make for declaring under the LVD. Without the narrow scope of the standard, > you are left to argue the overly broad scope of the LVD versus the overly > broad scope of the Machinery Directive. > > I would also state that your simplest terms are a little too simple. There > are plenty of electrical children’s toys that could fit within your > description. Lego Technic provides motors, transmissions, gears and other > parts for a child to make something quite resembling a machine. The Machinery > Directive does not exclude toys, but I have yet to see any of these toys > declared under anything but the Toy Directive. The Machinery Directive does > not exclude medical equipment, yet those products often have complex moving > assemblies. > > However, let me state that I am far from an expert in the Machinery Directive > and I encourage all with contrary opinions to respond to set me straight. I > am just another person trying to deal with the broad scopes and limited > guidance available. > > Ted Eckert > Compliance Engineer > Microsoft Corporation > [email protected] > > The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my > employer. > > From: Nick Williams [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 9:21 AM > To: Ted Eckert > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Machinery Directive silly question? > > I've said this before. The status of standard DOES NOT determine whether > product is within the scope of a particular Directive or not. > > To put it in its simplest terms, if a product has powered moving parts then, > irrespective of the status or otherwise of any standards, it is within the > scope of the Machinery Directive unless it is excluded by one of the clauses > in Article 1. That's all there is to it. > > Nick. > > > > > > > On 30 Apr 2012, at 17:00, Ted Eckert wrote: > > > The first question I would ask is whether there is a product specific > standard that covers your product. If so, then determine if that product > specific standard is a harmonized standard under one of the other directives. > In that case, the machinery directive would not apply. > > For example, an air conditioner has plenty of moving parts. However, a small > portable air conditioner intended to be installed and used by general users > is covered by EN 60335-2-40, which is a harmonized standard under the Low > Voltage Directive. This air conditioner would not fall under the Machinery > Directive. > > On the other hand, a large commercial air conditioner designed to be > installed on the roof of a building is not within the scope of EN 60335-2-40. > There are general standards covering the mechanical safety and the safety of > the pressurized system, but not an overarching product standard for this type > of product. As such, it falls under the Machinery Directive. > > You may need to do some research to see if your product is within the scope > of a product specific standard. However, if it is and if that standard is a > harmonized standard under the Low Voltage Directive, the LVD would likely > apply. These standards are designed to cover potential mechanical hazards > specific to certain product types, but they are recognized as covering > product where electrical hazards predominate. > > This is not just the case for the LVD. There are medical products with moving > parts and toys with moving parts and those are each covered under their own > directives. If your product has a radio, and it is covered by a standard > harmonized under the R&TTE Directive, that Directive may be the one that > applies. > > Ted Eckert > Compliance Engineer > Microsoft Corporation > [email protected] > > The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my > employer. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Hone [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 30 April 2012 14:12 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [PSES] Machinery Directive silly question? > > Dear Colleagues, > > I know that you are all patient with what might seem silly questions, so I > hope you'll be patient with mine. > > I have not had to consider the Machinery Directive before, but a new > electrical product has a moving part in it. It's a wholly enclosed > (inaccessible in the middle of the equipment) fan that blows air through the > equipment (not a cooling fan). > > The MD defines machinery: " an assembly, fitted with or intended to be fitted > with a drive system... consisting of... components, at least one of which > moves, and which are joined together for a specific application". > > So the silly question is, if the moving part is wholly contained within the > equipment and is inaccessible, does the MD apply or do I apply the LVD? > > I have Googled this question and have found references that say the MD does > apply (it's the enclosure that makes the moving part safe), and references > that say the MD does not apply (as the moving part is wholly internal, one > doesn't need to even consider it). I strongly suspect the former statement > is the correct one. > > Your authoritative opinions are sought! > > With thanks in anticipation, > > Mark > > > -- > Mark Hone > HESS Manager > > Wellman Defence Limited > Dolphin House > Williams Road > Portsmouth > Hampshire > PO3 5FP > > T: +44 (0)23 9262 9239 > F: +44 (0)23 9269 7864 > E: [email protected] > W: www.wellmandefence.co.uk > > ________________________________ > Wellman Defence is a limited company registered in England and Wales. > > Company Registration No. 953609 > > Registered Offices: Wellman International Ltd., Newfield Road, Oldbury, West > Midlands, B69 3ET, England. > > The contents and any attachments to this email include information that is > private and confidential and should only be read by those persons to whom > they are addressed. 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