Also, installed (horizontally) by a licensed electrician in the backsplash for our sinks in our bathroom.
Rich From: James Hulbert <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2026 5:38 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] [PSES] Friday Question - in the USA, ground pin down or gorund pin up? Of course in our office and in many commercial locations, the ground pin is neither on top nor on bottom: Jim Hulbert From: Ron <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2026 11:28 PM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] [PSES] Friday Question - in the USA, ground pin down or gorund pin up? This message is from an EXTERNAL EMAIL system. Use caution and think before opening attachments, clicking links, or responding. First, welcome from world of retirement. It's been a long while since I contributed. For the subject at hand, my father was a licensed electrician & would install outlets with the ground pin facing up to signal that the receptacle (or half of a duplex receptacle) was controlled by a wall switch. I don't know how common practice that was, but it seems to be. >From a safety perspective, I am not aware if either orientation is more or >less safe also as confirmed below (especially since I've not been active in >compliance for some years now). Hope this answered your question. Best regards, Ron Pickard Sent from my Smartphone On June 12, 2026, at 19:32, Ted Eckert <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: The orientation of the ground pin likely doesn't matter if there is any flooding. The frame of the duplex outlet is ground, and the line and neutral screws on the sides are symmetrical, so there will be a line connection towards the bottom regardless of which orientation the outlet is installed in. Nonmetallic sheathed cable, such as Romex, often has paper around the ground wire as a spacer. If there is any flooding, water wicks into the cable and rots it from the inside out. This cable would need to be stripped from a flood-damaged structure. In my opinion, this is a bigger issue in a flooded residential structure in the U.S. I think the outlet orientation would be a very low priority at that point. UL_Flood_Electrical_Equipment_WP_V4.pdf <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/code-authorities.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/46/2019/12/UL_Flood_Electrical_Equipment_WP_V4.pdf__;!!GXa4NB5MBjHR!Rnz5BXBm3iADyJLxFuEusldl7cLkPSdLsaUQ-fNcB7wM_lpcPUH_uJvjUKBnLC_Iigde_PxcsYGBmi9vsObN86KQHg$> Ted Eckert The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers or UL. _____ From: Larry Merchell <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2026 6:01 PM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] [PSES] Friday Question - in the USA, ground pin down or gorund pin up? You don't often get email from [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> . Learn why this is important <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification__;!!GXa4NB5MBjHR!Rnz5BXBm3iADyJLxFuEusldl7cLkPSdLsaUQ-fNcB7wM_lpcPUH_uJvjUKBnLC_Iigde_PxcsYGBmi9vsOaR3ADZsQ$> Is the ground pin down safer in a single fault condition where there is a flood or if the fire sprinklers are activated? Larry Merchell _____ From: John Woodgate <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2026 4:12 PM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] [PSES] Friday Question - in the USA, ground pin down or gorund pin up? Agreed; losing the ground connection must not create an unsafe condition, but leakage is inevitable, even if it is much less than 1 mA, so that when the ground connection is lost, accessible parts may be at 50 V or so to ground when touched, which can be felt as a mild shock. On 2026-06-12 23:42, Ralph McDiarmid wrote: A fundamental axiom across all modern product‑safety standards is that two independent levels of protection must exist so that no single failure can result in a hazard or in an unsafe condition. From: John Woodgate <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> Sent: June 12, 2026 8:58 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] [PSES] Friday Question - in the USA, ground pin down or gorund pin up? Yes, but that by itself should not create an unsafe condition. A second fault is needed (NOT!) to make accessible conducting parts live. There might be a mild shock due to leakage current, though. On 2026-06-12 16:24, Ted Eckert wrote: However, if the plug is pulled at a severe angle, there is a risk that the ground connection breaks before line and neutral. -- Best wishes John Woodgate RAYLEIGH Essex OOO-Own Opinions Only www.woodjohn.uk <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.woodjohn.uk/__;!!GXa4NB5MBjHR!Rnz5BXBm3iADyJLxFuEusldl7cLkPSdLsaUQ-fNcB7wM_lpcPUH_uJvjUKBnLC_Iigde_PxcsYGBmi9vsObkJVRnug$> If something is true: * as far as we know - it's science *for certain - it's mathematics *unquestionably - it's religion <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient__;!!GXa4NB5MBjHR!Rnz5BXBm3iADyJLxFuEusldl7cLkPSdLsaUQ-fNcB7wM_lpcPUH_uJvjUKBnLC_Iigde_PxcsYGBmi9vsObfjBNG-Q$> Virus-free. <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient__;!!GXa4NB5MBjHR!Rnz5BXBm3iADyJLxFuEusldl7cLkPSdLsaUQ-fNcB7wM_lpcPUH_uJvjUKBnLC_Iigde_PxcsYGBmi9vsObfjBNG-Q$> www.avg.com _____ This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/__;!!GXa4NB5MBjHR!Rnz5BXBm3iADyJLxFuEusldl7cLkPSdLsaUQ-fNcB7wM_lpcPUH_uJvjUKBnLC_Iigde_PxcsYGBmi9vsOZeVer18A$> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/__;!!GXa4NB5MBjHR!Rnz5BXBm3iADyJLxFuEusldl7cLkPSdLsaUQ-fNcB7wM_lpcPUH_uJvjUKBnLC_Iigde_PxcsYGBmi9vsObshF1Skg$> Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html__;!!GXa4NB5MBjHR!Rnz5BXBm3iADyJLxFuEusldl7cLkPSdLsaUQ-fNcB7wM_lpcPUH_uJvjUKBnLC_Iigde_PxcsYGBmi9vsObPnXFvhw$> List rules: https://pses.ieee.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/EM-PSTC-List-Rules.pdf <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/pses.ieee.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/EM-PSTC-List-Rules.pdf__;!!GXa4NB5MBjHR!Rnz5BXBm3iADyJLxFuEusldl7cLkPSdLsaUQ-fNcB7wM_lpcPUH_uJvjUKBnLC_Iigde_PxcsYGBmi9vsOaqJPaISg$> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Rick Linford at: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> _____ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1__;!!GXa4NB5MBjHR!Rnz5BXBm3iADyJLxFuEusldl7cLkPSdLsaUQ-fNcB7wM_lpcPUH_uJvjUKBnLC_Iigde_PxcsYGBmi9vsObCnBIHUw$> &A=1 -- Best wishes John Woodgate RAYLEIGH Essex OOO-Own Opinions Only www.woodjohn.uk <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.woodjohn.uk/__;!!GXa4NB5MBjHR!Rnz5BXBm3iADyJLxFuEusldl7cLkPSdLsaUQ-fNcB7wM_lpcPUH_uJvjUKBnLC_Iigde_PxcsYGBmi9vsObkJVRnug$> If something is true: * as far as we know - it's science *for certain - it's mathematics *unquestionably - it's religion _____ This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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