On Tuesday 22 May 2018 18:58:52 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Try this one, sorry it moved.
>
> http://www.cds.caltech.edu/~murray/books/AM08/pdf/am08-complete_22Feb0
>9.pdf
>
> -- Chris

That worked. Pretty well covers feedback systems from a cursory read, 
less technical but still complete. It looks like I ought to add it to my 
dead tree library, after I put some fresh ink in my big Brother, its got 
two nearly empty tanks ATM. And pick up another ream of good paper and a 
2" D ring binder.

Thanks Chris.

> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 3:04 PM, Gene Heskett <[email protected]> 
wrote:
> > On Tuesday 22 May 2018 12:10:47 Chris Albertson wrote:
> >> I just got a copy of "Feedback Systems - An Introduction for
> >> Scientists and Engineers, Karl Johan °Aström and Richard M. Murray"
> >>
> >> The book is FREE and pdf format at
> >> http://www.cds.caltech.edu/∼murray/amwiki
> >
> > I, like others are reporting Chris, am getting a not found error,
> > and I suspect its the character in the little box in front of the
> > "murray" string above. Its reproduced as a small "1/4" symbol here
> > in the browsers (palemoon) font, and I don't think it belongs in a
> > url address. Swag: caltecs way of establishing copyright?
> >
> >> It is an actual set book that seem to be exactly what anyone
> >> working in this field needs to know.  I'd say it is not is
> >> mathematically oriented as a real university control theory book
> >> and certainly well above the hobby level.  It assume some know age
> >> of Calculus but not a lot.  Pretty much what the title says.   But
> >> it covers feedback, not just motion control. so things like op-amps
> >> are covered.   But you need to know that to if designing control
> >> circuits
> >>
> >> I'm using stepper motors but already have DRO scales.   It seems
> >> that I should be able to combine open loop counting with closed
> >> loop linear sensors.
> >>
> >> Suggestion above were good, thanks, because they contain a solution
> >> I had not thought of, drive "I" with different data than "PD"
> >>
> >> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 6:44 AM, John Kasunich
> >> <[email protected]>
> >
> > wrote:
> >> > On Fri, May 11, 2018, at 11:16 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> >> >> I looked at the unit.   It seems like a good idea.  It uses
> >> >> inputs from both the motor's shaft encoders and another encoder
> >> >> on the object that is being moved, like a linear encoder on the
> >> >> table.
> >> >>
> >> >> Question:  Let's say I wanted to do this myself.   Is there a
> >> >> method that "everyone" in the machine tool industry uses for
> >> >> combining the reading of multiple encoders?  If not it seems
> >> >> like the perfect application for a Kalman filter.
> >> >>
> >> >> But maybe you don't combine them but use the linear DRO for
> >> >> position loop and the motor shaft encoders for velocity.
> >> >>
> >> >> This is a common problem I think with robot arms.  The joint has
> >> >> an angle sensor but the motor has a shaft encoder.   So the
> >> >> control loops might be nested.
> >> >>
> >> >> It reminds my the old saying the "A man with a watch knows what
> >> >> time it is, a man with two watches is never sure of the time."
> >> >
> >> > We did something like this several years ago at Stuart's shop in
> >> > Wichita, on a big Giddings and Lewis boring mill.
> >> >
> >> > We used two PID loops, with their outputs summed.  The position
> >> > command went to both loops.  The feedback for one loop came from
> >> > the motor encoder, and the feedback for the other loop came from
> >> > the linear scale.
> >> >
> >> > The motor loop was tuned as normal, except that the I-gain was
> >> > kept at zero. The linear scale loop was tuned using ONLY I-gain. 
> >> > So the linear scale loop corrected the fairly small steady-state
> >> > errors due to things like the lead screw heating up (10 foot long
> >> > screw, it adds up).  It also compensates for backlash in the
> >> > screw, and if there is much of that it leads to disturbances on
> >> > direction reversal.  Isn't going to fix a clapped out machine,
> >> > but can improve the accuracy of a tight machine.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >   John Kasunich
> >> >   [email protected]
> >> >
> >> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> > --
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
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-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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