More users means more exposure means more contributions and how can you be so arrogant as to judge these would-be developers as being "not worth talking about" before you've actually seen their work, you might be surprised. This attitude is maybe the real reason as to why the dev community is so small, the remaining devs are maybe the few ones who are actually able to keep up with your insane judgmental crap. "been there, done that", really ? I guess I missed the e17 release that you've done already.. in that case, forget everything I said! oh and what makes me think we might get a deluge, it's simply because people won't invest their time in something that technically "doesn't exist" and doesn't have any users. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you'll only get one more developer, or maybe even zero, it doesn't matter, don't judge too soon and see what happens instead of assuming you can predict the future.
On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 3:49 AM, Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com>wrote: > On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 03:47:05 -0400 Youness Alaoui > <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> said: > > we'll get 50x the users complaining and asking for help. we don't get any > developers worth talking about to make up for it. been there. done that. > if the > current developer base is so disinterested in e17 then what makes u think > u'll > suddenly get a deluge of them? > > > The point is that without a release, you can't expect interest in > > 'vaporware'. After the release, there is a very good chance that you will > > see a lot more people interested in it and more contributors. > > > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Carsten Haitzler > > <ras...@rasterman.com>wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 11:10:21 -0400 Youness Alaoui > > > <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> said: > > > > > > we won't catch up because no one works on e17. no one is interested in > it > > > anymore and a release won't change that/ 99% of the development effort > is > > > on > > > EFL not e. > > > > > > > Thanks Gustavo, you said many of the same things that I just said > (email > > > was > > > > written async) and you made me realize one point... the WM world is > > > > constantly changing, when we are ready for release, some new thing > will > > > come > > > > out and then we need to adapt again... E17 was the most beautiful WM > out > > > > there, and then compiz was released and it added cool new effects, > then > > > > gnome 3 was released, and with all that, E17 is starting to get > > > outdated.. > > > > if you don't release, you'll never be able to catch up (they caught > up to > > > > you, but they stole the users who wanted those features but couldn't > see > > > a > > > > release to get them from). > > > > I won't make this any longer :) > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 6:01 AM, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri < > > > > barbi...@profusion.mobi> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 12:55 AM, Michael Jennings <m...@kainx.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > On Saturday, 29 October 2011, at 11:23:37 (+0900), > > > > > > Carsten Haitzler wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> i'll post here as a summary. what k-s wants is to just release > > > e17-as is > > > > > after > > > > > >> fixing some efm bugs. who agrees with that? everything stays > as-is. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> the reason xrandr is on the todo is that there are many > complaints > > > and > > > > > >> questions about how to get multi screen to work and we have no > > > solution. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> the reason taskbar is there is because engage is compositing > based > > > > > realistically > > > > > >> and we have to work without, and we again have had enough users > > > complain > > > > > and > > > > > >> ask for a way to switch tasks. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> the reason efm is on the list is its mostly working and usable > as a > > > > > simple > > > > > >> filemanager - that was its point. it needs some bugs fixed. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> the reason keymap config is there is for all those europeans > (and a > > > few > > > > > others) > > > > > >> with odd keymaps and people have no clue how to configure this > on a > > > > > >> command-line or in config files. the other todo items could get > > > dropped, > > > > > though > > > > > >> theme does need to be polished. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> this wasnt unilaterally decided by me. i believe in making a > good > > > > > attempt at a > > > > > >> quality release. gustavo just believes in dumping out whatever > we > > > have. > > > > > all the > > > > > >> bitching about gnome and others will happen to us if we don't > > > provide > > > > > these > > > > > >> basics that gnome etc. already DO. to many people we are > useless. > > > these > > > > > are not > > > > > >> new fangled ideas or standards - this is old hat that we haven't > > > > > covered. so > > > > > >> how do u expect to make those people happy and try or stay with > e > > > when > > > > > we are > > > > > >> not functional in some key aspects? > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely correct. > > > > > > > > > > The way you guys put thing looks like revolutionary stuff is coming > > > > > before the release. The missing features won't hurt as much others > you > > > > > guys never cited. > > > > > > > > > > If the person is willing to use E17 you can be sure that features > > > > > (even basic) doesn't play a role in his life as he can work out his > > > > > stuff. If person wants features, they will very likely move between > > > > > the 3 big ones (GNOME, KDE or Unity). There are tons of other > features > > > > > these people will miss, from indexing files to broader connection > > > > > management (connman is not as used as networkmanager) to > integration > > > > > with web2.0 services such as sending pictures to picasa or flickr. > > > > > > > > > > IMO we're getting people that would be willing to move to awesome > or > > > > > fluxbox. That is, zero features, just speed and control. Like a > > > > > sportive car. We can compete there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After 10 years of development, releasing nothing is far, far > > > > > > preferable to releasing something half-assed. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can hear the comments now. "I've waited this long for crap? > 10 > > > > > > years, and this is the best they can do? Never again!" > > > > > > > > > > This WILL happen. Because of exactly this argument. We don't > release, > > > > > developers go away and we have less man power. Other desktops don't > > > > > stop, they release and get more developers, they can implement > more. > > > > > Features won't stop showing. > > > > > > > > > > In 2007 when I joined to project I was wondering why it was not > > > > > released. By the time we still had basics like language and efm to > do. > > > > > We did not release and since then we also started to miss Composite > > > > > Manager (done, while lang was not), Indexer Integration (partially > > > > > done with Tracker in Everything)... very soon we'll have to > implement > > > > > the new FDO standards for applications menu and systray. > > > > > > > > > > Even the canonical arguments "fancy" and "light" are not applying > > > > > these days. We're boring compared to competition. There are really > > > > > light WM out there. > > > > > > > > > > That said, the more we wait, the worse it gets. We'll have to > suffer, > > > > > let's do it for once and for all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If people are honestly that bent out of shape wanting a release, > they > > > > > > should be hammering away on the TODO list. Getting shit done is > how > > > a > > > > > > release will happen, not rehashing the same tired old argument > every > > > > > > few months diverting time from more productive pursuits. > > > > > > > > > > I did try this approach earlier. It did not work. I've worked for > > > > > years in the TODO list, yet the list is never enough for people > > > > > blocking the release. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri > > > > > http://profusion.mobi embedded systems > > > > > -------------------------------------- > > > > > MSN: barbi...@gmail.com > > > > > Skype: gsbarbieri > > > > > Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook > > > > > in minutes. BlackBerry App World™ now supports Android™ > Apps > > > > > for the BlackBerry® PlayBook™. Discover just how easy and > > > simple > > > > > it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook > > > > in minutes. BlackBerry App World™ now supports Android™ > Apps > > > > for the BlackBerry® PlayBook™. Discover just how easy and > simple > > > > it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > -------------- > > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > > > > > -- > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook in minutes. BlackBerry App World™ now supports Android™ Apps for the BlackBerry® PlayBook™. 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