Damn GNOME, ruining simplicity for the rest of us. Seriously though, if you can make it simple, then it's good, once it gets cluttering and complex it's bad. I was just arguing against pumping many features in just for the sake of it.
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 2:21 PM, David Seikel <[email protected]> wrote: > On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:58:34 +0000 Tom Hacohen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I think that although your suggestions are good they are a bit too > > "complex" or at least they will clutter the UI and the simplicity. > > Simple is good, but there's such a thing as too simple, that's the > mistake the GNOME people made. Obviously from the comments on this > thread your "simple" will be some one else's "this is too hard, I'll > use something else". In one case, the "something else" was to tether to > their phone instead of using econman. > > You wont be able to do "simple" that every one will like. This > definitely calls for more complexity and user choice. If you can't > make everyone happy with your idea of simple, make it more flexible. > > Or to put it another way, you want to make it simpler than "tether to > some other device, coz that other device has a better method of > selection" plus the complexity of setting up the tether itself. To do > that you need to make it flexible enough so the user has more choice > than "what ever Tom thinks is the best". > > As for cluttering the UI, you have columns with "name", "signal > strength", etc, and you can sort by each column by clicking it's > heading. This is stuff people are used to already, they expect that > sort of thing. It's quite simple really. B-) > > > As for what I define best: that's a criteria we would have to decide, > > can be either open first, locked afterwards and inside sort by signal > > strength, or just wifis with the letter e in the name. > > > > By the way, I do agree that a minute is too much. > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 1:52 PM, David Seikel <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:39:31 +0000 Tom Hacohen <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > But that's not how you usually want your wifis sorted. You usually > > > > want best->worst. > > > > > > Actual, depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for > > > the "best" one, then you are correct, but "best" in what way? The > > > fastest one with the most signal strength is useless if it's locked > > > down and you don't have the proper credentials. > > > > > > On the other hand, if you are looking for a specific hotspot, then > > > sorting by name is best. > > > > > > Allow several sorting criteria, allowing to start or stop scanning > > > at any time, even "sort by least/most recently found". Needs some > > > flexibility to be good for every one. > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Davide Andreoli > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > 2012/11/27 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > I think that always freezing is as painful, as adding an > > > > > > action to > > > > > refresh > > > > > > is cumbersome. > > > > > > > > > > > > What about a refresh threshold as Bruno said. It could be one > > > > > > minute, I guess it should do without being as annoying, and > > > > > > it's fixed rate at > > > > > least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and what about just make the list alphabetic sorted so that it > > > > > don't get mess > > > > > when refreshed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Tom Hacohen <[email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you essentially encountered the same issues as I have. > > > > > > > You want a "freeze list" button, I argue that the freezing > > > > > > > should be the default. Not the entire list appeared: sounds > > > > > > > like a bug and I hope such things > > > > > > will > > > > > > > get fixed, but I don't think they should stop us from > > > > > > > planning on doing > > > > > > the > > > > > > > right thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Zoffix Znet > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to add my experience with this exact problem: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It wasn't in a train, but in a mall's parking lot. I > > > > > > > > haven't counted > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > number of access points, but it looked like enough to > > > > > > > > have a couple > > > > > of > > > > > > > > screens to scroll through. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was trying to find an open access point, but the list > > > > > > > > kept > > > > > > refreshing. > > > > > > > > I forget now whether the list would scroll to the top, or > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > rearrange > > > > > > > > all the access points (or add new ones it found), but I do > > > > > > > > remember every time it refreshed, I was lost in the list. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not the entire list appeared in the popup right away (not > > > > > > > > sure why—I wasn't moving), so disabling update when popup > > > > > > > > is open might not be feasible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the time, I wished there were a "freeze list" button > > > > > > > > somewhere, so once it updated with something you wish to > > > > > > > > browse through, you could just stop the list from updating > > > > > > > > until you unfreeze the list by > > > > > > clicking > > > > > > > > that button again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My two cents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ZZ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 10:34 +0000, Tom Hacohen wrote: > > > > > > > > > Sounds like a good suggestion, and that will surely be > > > > > > > > > nice, but I > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > think it solves our issue for people who just want to > > > > > > > > > run through > > > > > the > > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > finding an open wifi. As for everyone who said 30 wifis > > > > > > > > > are too > > > > > much > > > > > > > > anyway > > > > > > > > > and etc., maybe I was wrong and it was 20, I was just > > > > > > > > > assessing, > > > > > but > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > list was long, too long. > > > > > > > > > I don't understand why you are against having a list > > > > > > > > > that doesn't > > > > > > > refresh > > > > > > > > > while it's open (and possibly has an indication that > > > > > > > > > shows that > > > > > it's > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > longer up to date or whatever. The only case where this > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > actually > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > problem is when you are on a train/car/whatever that > > > > > > > > > wifis actually significantly change, because if wifis > > > > > > > > > just disappear because of > > > > > low > > > > > > > > > reception they are not relevant anyway and refreshing > > > > > > > > > the list or > > > > > not > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > not matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Bruno Dilly < > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:28 PM, Robert Krambovitis < > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> From: "Lucas De Marchi" > > > > > > > > > > >> <[email protected]> To: "Enlightenment > > > > > > > > > > >> developer list" < > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > >> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 6:16:17 PM > > > > > > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [E-devel] Connman module suggestion > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Bruno Dilly < > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Lucas De Marchi > > > > > > > > > > >> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> >> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 12:08 AM, Bruno Dilly > > > > > > > > > > >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 9:57 PM, Gustavo > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> Sverzut Barbieri <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>> On Sunday, November 25, 2012, Tom Hacohen > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>>> Not when you have 30 wifis in the same area. > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>>> This makes > > > > > > > things > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>>> just > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>>> impossible. If there's a bug in connman/the > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>>> module, it > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>>> be fixed, but > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>>> usability ATM is just crap. > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>> It's in wpa_supplicant that scans, emits a > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>> signal and > > > > > > connman > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>> sends another > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>> and we show it > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> It's right, but... it's possible to handle > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> that in our > > > > > > module, > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> setting > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> a timer while the popup is open. Something > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> like: > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> popup_open_cb() > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> ... > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> module_data->allow_list_update = EINA_FALSE > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> ecore_timer_add(config_time, _allow_update, > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> module_data) > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> _allow_update(module_data) > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> module->allow_list_update = EINA_TRUE > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> return EINA_FALSE > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> _connman_update_cb(module_data) > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> if (!module_data->allow_list_update) > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> return /* bad */ > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> update_popup_list(module_data) > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> module_data->allow_list_update = EINA_FALSE > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> ecore_timer_add(config_time, _allow_update, > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> module_data) > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> The line tagged as bad is bad because if I > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> remember > > > > > > correctly, > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> connman > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> will just send us a signal after something > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> changes > > > > > (network > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> removed > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> / added / list sorted), > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> so we can be discarding a change that happened > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> between a config_time > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> frametime and the outdate information will > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> persist in our list for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> No.... don't do this. We could maintain the > > > > > > > > > > >> >> popup list not synchronized with connman's > > > > > > > > > > >> >> list. However discarding > > > > > updates > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > >> >> the > > > > > > > > > > >> >> *connman* list will open cans of worms. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > OK, that's exactly what the second version does > > > > > > > > > > >> > =) > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> So, if we are going to implement this delay, it > > > > > > > > > > >> >> should be > > > > > > only > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > >> >> the > > > > > > > > > > >> >> update_popup_list() function, not in econnman.c. > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > Right, that's what is done just below: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> So maybe a better would be: > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> popup_open_cb() > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> ... > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> module_data->allow_list_update = EINA_FALSE > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> module_data->popup_list_outdated = EINA_FALSE > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> ecore_timer_add(config_time, _allow_update, > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> module_data) > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> _allow_update(module_data) > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> if (module_data->popup_list_outdated) > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> update_popup_list(module_data) > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> module_data->popup_list_outdated = > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> EINA_FALSE return EINA_TRUE > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> module->allow_list_update = EINA_TRUE > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> return EINA_FALSE > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> _connman_update_cb(module_data) > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> update_module_data_list(module_data) /* > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> update internal > > > > > > > list, > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> not > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> the popup list*/ > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> if (!module_data->allow_list_update) > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> module_data->popup_list_outdated = > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> EINA_TRUE return > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> update_popup_list(module_data) > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> module_data->allow_list_update = EINA_FALSE > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> ecore_timer_add(config_time, _allow_update, > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> module_data) > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> And we would need to make sure everything would > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> work fine > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> this lists > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> out of sync. Also timer should be properly > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> deleted when > > > > > > popup > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> closed, etc. > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> But I definitely don't like the proposal of not > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> updating > > > > > the > > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> while the popup is open. > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> I don't either. However if you have 30+ > > > > > > > > > > >> >> services, you'll > > > > > > have > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > >> >> hard > > > > > > > > > > >> >> time finding the service you want because: > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> 1) If signal strengths change in such a way that > > > > > > > > > > >> >> services > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > >> >> reordered, the popup list will be deleted and > > > > > > > > > > >> >> recreated 2) If networks are added/removed, the > > > > > > > > > > >> >> popup list will be > > > > > > > deleted > > > > > > > > > > >> >> and recreated. > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> And this (I think) implies that the list will > > > > > > > > > > >> >> scroll back > > > > > to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >> >> initial position. It's not a problem for simpler > > > > > > > > > > >> >> cases, but > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > >> >> really > > > > > > > > > > >> >> is when you are in a public place with lots of > > > > > > > > > > >> >> wifi APs. > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> So, IMO what needs to be done is to either delay > > > > > > > > > > >> >> updates > > > > > *to > > > > > > > > popup > > > > > > > > > > >> >> list* when popup is open. Or even doesn't allow > > > > > > > > > > >> >> it at all. > > > > > > > > However > > > > > > > > > > >> >> the > > > > > > > > > > >> >> second approach seems bad for my daily use of > > > > > > > > > > >> >> opening the > > > > > > popup > > > > > > > > > > >> >> and > > > > > > > > > > >> >> waiting for the service to show up. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > This second approach is crappy. You would need to > > > > > > > > > > >> > open / > > > > > close > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >> > popup list > > > > > > > > > > >> > many times until you see the service you want... > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> this is what is being currently done. not > > > > > > > > > > >> something I'm > > > > > > proposing > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > >> do. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> We have a list of services deleted, but we don't > > > > > > > > > > >> have a list > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > >> services addded. They are mixed with the current > > > > > > > > > > >> ones. Of > > > > > course > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > >> could compare the current list with the new one to > > > > > > > > > > >> check if > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > >> were > > > > > > > > > > >> services added or if it was only a reordering > > > > > > > > > > >> update. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > Actually there are other ways to handle this > > > > > > > > > > >> > situation. Like just removing / adding networks, > > > > > > > > > > >> > not sorting them > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > >> > I believe just removing / adding items to a list > > > > > > > > > > >> > widget > > > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > > > > > >> > mess > > > > > > > > > > >> > with its scroll (not 100% sure about it). > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> AFAIR, we did this in the previous connman module, > > > > > > > > > > >> comparing > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >> lists.... and it suffered the same problem. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > So the list wouldn't be cleared and repopulated > > > > > > > > > > >> > everytime. > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > >> > should > > > > > > > > > > >> > make users life easier too. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > But I would go with the second version of the > > > > > > > > > > >> > solution I've proposed. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> agreed, > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> Lucas De Marchi > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to butt in, but how bout filtering the huge > > > > > > > > > > > list of > > > > > > networks > > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > > > on entry text ? > > > > > > > > > > > Chances are that you will know what the network you > > > > > > > > > > > are looking > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > called, or have an idea, so typing the 1st few chars > > > > > > > > > > should be > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > limit any kind of chaos into a few potential networks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something in the lines of everything module, or > > > > > > > > > > > even a plugin > > > > > for > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > everything module. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a thought, feel free to ignore :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like a valid proposal for me as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud > > > > > > > > > > > infrastructure from a > > > > > > > single > > > > > > > > > > > web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, > > > > > > > > > > > servers, > > > > > databases, > > > > > > > > vmware, > > > > > > > > > > > SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free > > > > > > > > > > > Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or > > > > > > > > > > > applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Bruno Dilly > > > > > > > > > > Lead Developer > > > > > > > > > > ProFUSION embedded systems > > > > > > > > > > http://profusion.mobi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud > > > > > > > > > > infrastructure from a > > > > > > single > > > > > > > > > > web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, > > > > > > > > > > databases, > > > > > > > > vmware, > > > > > > > > > > SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free > > > > > > > > > > Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or > > > > > > > > > > applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure > > > > > > > > from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, > > > > > > > > servers, databases, > > > > > > vmware, > > > > > > > > SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free > > > > > > > > Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or > > > > > > > > applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Tom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure > > > > > > > from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, > > > > > > > servers, databases, > > > > > vmware, > > > > > > > SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. > > > > > > > Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! > > > > > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri > > > > > > http://profusion.mobi embedded systems > > > > > > -------------------------------------- > > > > > > MSN: [email protected] > > > > > > Skype: gsbarbieri > > > > > > Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a > > > > > > single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, > > > > > > databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download > > > > > > 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or > > > > > > applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a > > > > > single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, > > > > > databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download > > > > > 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or > > > > > applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants > > > coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a > > > single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, > > > databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day > > > Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov > > > _______________________________________________ > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants > coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single > web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, > SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. > Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > -- Tom. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
