Fantastic! It really is a key term. I suggest that as part of the program you find some nearby woodlots to show people- which exemplify forest health from excellent to very bad. Seeing what the term means will make it real.
Joe PS: to me, the concept is an equation with many variables- each variable must be quantifiable including values not yet in the marketplace- while social and political values also plugged into the equation must be transparent. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: [ENTS] Re: Rendezvous Report > Joe, > > I agree that it is time for us to really define our terms. Next year, > Gary and I will have another event in the Forest Summit Lecture Series. I > propose that we devote it entirely to the topic of forest health to > include all kinds of threats to the forest inlcuding poor forest > practices. Finding the lecturers far enough ahead of time will be our task > at hand. > > Bob > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Joseph Zorzin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> >> Right, that's why I'm challenging people to come up with a solid, >> scientific, quantifiable definition. >> >> Joe >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Edward Frank" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 10:15 AM >> Subject: [ENTS] Re: Rendezvous Report >> >> >> Joe, >> >> I would tend to disagree with you. Simply because the forest industry has >> repeatedly mutilated the term forest health does not mean that the >> concept >> is invalid. Just because the concept is not easily quantifiable does not >> mean it is not a scientific concept. Not trying to define the idea of >> forest health in scientific terms, is simply ceding it to the forestry >> industry to use as they will. Forest health is an ecological concept. It >> is a scientific concept and better and clearer scientific definitions >> need >> to be developed to serve as a counterweight to forest industry arguments >> that practices like clear-cutting and high-grading promote forest health. >> To counter the idea that cutting old growth forests promotes forest >> health >> because younger forests may have a higher bird species diversity. These >> are my thoughts on the subject. >> >> Ed Frank >> >> "Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, And sorry I could not travel both. >> " >> Robert Frost (1874-1963). Mountain Interval. 1920. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joseph Zorzin >> To: ENTS >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:40 PM >> Subject: [ENTS] Re: Rendezvous Report >> >> >> Lee, >> >> I'd like to suggest that the term "forest health" should be avoided- it's >> not a scientific concept. Proponents of different forest policies can all >> claim that their policies maintain productivity and species richness. Too >> often the debate stops there. >> >> To solve the forestry debates, we need much clearer use of language and >> solid science and the recognition that forest policies are a combination >> of: >> >> a.. biological and ecological science- the only fully rational and >> testable concepts which should have little debate >> b.. economics- a social science, often derided by economists themselves >> as the "dismal science"- not a strong pillar in forestry debates because >> too >> many benefits and costs are not counted >> c.. politics- because various forest policies will benefit some >> socio-economic classes and hurt others- the underlying politics is almost >> always avoided in polite discussions, thus greatly limiting the true >> value >> of those discussions >> d.. aesthetics- because the decision to cut some trees/forests may or >> may not consider aesthetic values- such values are not correlated well >> with >> the other considerations and there is no right or wrong aesthetics >> Forestry establishments often claim THEIR polices will lead to improved >> forest health without a sound case being made on those above issues. >> Based >> just on some vague sense of "productivity" and "species" richness, on >> some >> level they may be right- which may appear to support their policies which >> can not be supported on a fuller consideration of all relevant values. >> >> Thus, I find the entire concept of "forest health" dubious and >> destructive >> regardless of who defines the term. Better to throw the term out and look >> deeper into the full range of considerations relevant to what we're >> trying >> to get at when we're thinking about "forest health". >> >> Bob said, "While at Robinson, we talked about the distinction between >> forest health as seen through the eyes of the timber specialist versus >> the >> forest ecologist. Lee provided the group with a succinct definition of >> forest health that stressed balance and diversity. I will ask him to >> repeat >> his definition for the benefit of all Ents. Lee puts the subject of >> forest >> health into perspective, something the timber community cannot >> objectively >> do." >> >> The ancient problem is that most "timber specialists" are trained to see >> the forest as a factory- while the forest ecologist abhors the idea of >> the >> forest as a factory. Whatever we think we mean when we think of forest >> health has got to be something that will make both sides unhappy because >> their vision will be seen as simplistic- the goal is to come up with a >> new >> term that is a superset of the concept of "forest health"- richer by >> orders >> of magnitude, in such a way as to obtain the goals of both sides- a >> fusion >> which must be found, but like nuclear fusion, a most difficult challenge. >> >> Joe >> >> Forestry videos: >> http://vimeo.com/1993866 >> "A Tale of Two Clearcuts" >> http://vimeo.com/2090043 >> "Uneven vs. Even aged silviculture" >> >> Forest Guild Model Forest: http://www.forestguild.org/mf-gouldfarm.html >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lee Frelich >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:24 PM >> Subject: [ENTS] Re: Rendezvous Report >> >> >> Bob: >> >> Excellent report. I just arrived home in MN after stopping in PA Sunday >> evening and at my brothers house in WI Monday night. This is not exactly >> the >> frigid land you mention--it was over 70 degrees here today and yesterday. >> We >> are in an unusual November heat wave, and have not had snow like that I >> drove through in PA on the way out to MA. >> >> Here is my definition of forest health that you requested: >> >> A forest is healthy as long as it maintains the productivity and species >> richness (all taxonomic groups) of the pre-European settlement forest >> over >> time. >> >> Lee >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Introduction >> >> >> >> The time has arrived for the 2008 western Mass ENTS >> rendezvous to be entered into the ENTS record book. Let it be noted that >> the >> rendezvous officially commenced on Oct 30, 2008 and ended at the close of >> November 2nd. We had an informal, if not subdued, gathering, but the >> event >> produced some highly significant results. The report below covers the >> details of the 2008 rendezvous. However, before discussing the >> particulars, >> let me note that for October 2009, we are considering switching to >> > "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Cook Forest State Park >> > for >> our ENTS fall gathering. Details will be forthcoming. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org You are subscribed to the Google Groups "ENTSTrees" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
