Oh dear. My head is swimming. I have just reviewed the emails from the thread on "yellow" pines that I had archived with other ENTS and WNTS emails, trying to figure out what the heck ya'll are talking about. I know it is a pain, and I know that I should race to one key or another to help me figure out which pines (Pinus spp.) we might be discussing, but I would appreciate it if references to pines (and, for that matter, other species) had appended to their common names their binomials (even in short form, eg. "P. ponderosa") so that those of us on the left coast or elsewhere could actually follow the threads. And, I realize that this was the subject of the thread.
I suspect that most of you can distinguish among the common names for pine species where you live and work, but I have been having some trouble with the common names you use. If you live and work in California, you might know that digger pine, grey pine, gray pine, and foothill pine are all P. sabiniana, and that the common name was changed to be politically correct, and that these pines are frequently associated with serpentine soils (or at least soils with ultramafic parent materials), and that you don't want to camp under them because they have very large (and therefore dangerous) cones-- but you may not. And, if you live and work on the east coast, you probably will not. Here's what I find by searching through the yellow pine thread: "yellow" pine ancient old growth pine park's pitch pine Pinus ponderosa Jeffrey pine hard pines soft pines Table Mountain pine ponderosa pine eastern white pine pitch pine southern Hard pine native shortleaf pine white pine Virginia pine field pine Pinus palustris Long Leaf Pine red pine rock maple sugar maple soft maple red maple loblolly southern Yellow pine Slash pine LL pine Sand pine Spruce pine Pond pine Ponderosa (Bull) pine northern SPF canadian SPF black pine hill pine rosemary pine old ancient "yellow pine" ancient large old growth pine Now, even I can figure out some of these (for example, I think I know what is meant by "old ancient "yellow pines" and "ancient old growth pines", though there seem to be too many modifiers in those terms), and there is always some context for the discussion that might allow me to understand things a bit more, but I am having some problems keeping things straight--most of these pines were not identified except by their common names. What's a man (Homo sapiens, or, in my case, H. sapiens neanderthalensis) to do? I think we tend to fall into some of these conundra too easily--we assume that our conversations are contiguous, our thoughts shared, our perceptions continuous. Sometimes I can understand the threads. Binomials would be good. By the way, has anybody reviewed the new Sibley guide to trees? Is it worth buying? I would like to discuss these and other matters with those of you going to the October rendezvous, but cannot make it. Maybe the discussions can wait for Durango. In any event, thanks to all for the discussions and the photos. They are enlivening. David B. Kelley Consulting Plant and Soil Scientist • Arborist Kelley & Associates Environmental Sciences, Inc. 20 E. Baker Street Winters, California 95694 TEL: (530) 795-6006 FAX: (530) 795-6008 [email protected] On Sep 22, 2009, at 9:52 PM, Dale Luthringer wrote: > Thanks, Don, > > No, I don't have pictures, but it's likely we'll see a video of an > old ancient "yellow pine" at the ENTS Rendezvous at Cook Forest > here next weekend. > > Dale > > On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 3:04 PM, DON BERTOLETTE > <[email protected]> wrote: > Dale- > Some partial help here...you are exactly on the crux of why 'common > names' aren't reliable. Regional variations in 'local > nomenclature' are remarkably intransient...even in today's age of > multi-threaded communications systems. > > I'll not weigh in on Penn. woods, as I'm not knowledgeable there. > > But I can tell you that much of the West (west of Rockies) refers > to Pinus ponderosa as a yellow pine, particularly in its mature > phase. Its bark retains a darker pigmentation until age and size > causes the bark to 'plate out', exposing large yellow to gold (and > with hybridization with Jeffrey pine) to red-brown platy bark, and > darker furrows...these plates can be a foot across and 2-3 foot > tall on larger trees. And per recent posts, they have a very > pleasant aroma when sniffed up close. > > Do you have pictures? > -don > > > Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:42:05 -0400 > Subject: [ENTS] "yellow" pine > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > > > ENTS, > > I often have folks ask about "yellow" pine at Cook Forest. I'm not > entirely sure what exact species they're talking about. They often > think that "yellow" pine is it's own species. A quick search of > the term on the internet suggests the term "yellow" pine is often > made towards a group of pine in the genus Pinus, but doesn't give > an official name, kind of like calling any pine found, "yellow" pine. > > I'm thinking that they're most likely either talking about the > park's pitch pine, or possibly more likely... a fond nickname for > the ancient large old growth pine found here. > > Can anyone clear this up for me? These folks even go far back as > claiming it as an old forestry term used to describe pine, but they > still can't distinguish an actual species. > > Thanks, > > Dale > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
