Marc, The two species concept is not a new thing. Many taxonomists have favoured it already many decades ago. Here is some discussion about history of infrageneric classification and some findings based on a molecular study:
http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/mcm134v1 See the chapter Discussion. Do you have a reference that a general shift would have been made recently? - Kouta On Nov 21, 2:13 pm, Marcboston <[email protected]> wrote: > Kouta, I am willing to bet that some of those referances are not up to > date from which the switch was made. That said I agree with you > Steve. A regular "taxonomical nightmare". > > On Nov 21, 3:30 am, Kouta Räsänen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Steve, Marc, ENTS, > > > I carried out a quick survey on Cedrus to some appreciated new > > references. > > > FOUR SPECIES CONCEPT (Atlas Cedar is C. atlantica) IS FAVOURED BY: > > > The Gymnosperm Database:http://www.conifers.org/pi/ce/index.htm > > > NCBI Taxonomy > > Browser:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Taxonomy/Browser/wwwtax.cgi?mode=Tree&id=... > > > Farjon (2008): A Natural History of Conifers. > > > THREE SPECIES CONCEPT (Atlas Cedar is C. atlantica) IS FAVOURED BY: > > > GRIN Taxonomy for > > Plantshttp://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/splist.pl?2217 > > > TWO SPECIES CONCEPT (Atlas Cedar is C. libani subsb. atlantica) IS > > FAVOURED BY: > > > Eckenwalder (2009): Conifers of the World: The Complete Reference. > > > Again, I take no stand. Just showing there is many opinions as Steve > > noted. > > > - Kouta > > > On 21 marras, 04:18, Steve Galehouse <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Kouta, Marc, ENTS- > > > > The problem with taxonomy is often it doesn't make sense--the genera > > > Malus, > > > Pyrus, and Aronia can interbreed, as can Kalmia and Rhododendron, but the > > > series within the oaks, Erythrobalanus and Lepidobalanus, cannot, nor can > > > different series of maples--it doesn't make sense to have species within a > > > genus more biologically separated than those between two genera. Time for > > > cladistics, I guess. > > > > Steve > > > > 2009/11/20 Kouta Räsänen <[email protected]> > > > > > Marc & Steve, > > > > > GRIN considers they still separate species: > > > > >http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?9690 > > > > > (I am not claiming it's better to place them species than variety.) > > > > > - Kouta > > > > > On 20 marras, 22:41, Steve Galehouse <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > ENTS_ > > > > > > There has always been a lot of speculation, and contention, within the > > > > field > > > > > of taxonomy. It was once thought Cyprus cedar, *Cedrus brevifolia*, > > > > > was > > > > a > > > > > separate species, but that is now included as a variety or race of *C. > > > > > libani* as well---some authors even include Deodar as a variety of *C. > > > > > libani*. Closer to home, some authors consider Fraser fir a sub. of > > > > balsam > > > > > fir, pond cypress a sub of bald cypress, and Canada yew a sub. of > > > > > English > > > > > yew. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Marcboston > > > > > <[email protected] > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > Not to complicate things but it is my understanding that Cedrus > > > > > > atlantica has been lumped into the species libani. The "atlantica" > > > > > > form is now classified as a variety/sub-species of Cedrus libani at > > > > > > least in the nursery trade. > > > > > > > On Nov 20, 9:45 am, Kouta Räsänen <[email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Jenny, Steve et al., > > > > > > > > I guess Steve has right: rather Cedar of Lebanon than Atlas Cedar > > > > > > > because of flat-topped crown. > > > > > > > > There are a lot of similarities between European and your > > > > > > > vegetation. > > > > > > > Considering trees, there are even shared native species, like > > > > > > > Juniperus communis and Alnus incana. Many species pairs are very > > > > > > > similar, like Betula pendula - B. papyrifera, Ulmus laevis - U. > > > > > > > americana, Populus tremula - P. tremuloides, Populus nigra - P. > > > > > > > deltoides etc. > > > > > > > > > for some reason they are often the ones that are out of favor > > > > > > > > back > > > > in > > > > > > North > > > > > > > > Ameica: silver maple, box-elder, and black locust as examples. > > > > > > > > That's true. I think one reason is that there are not similar > > > > > > > species > > > > > > > in European nature: no maples with silvery leaf underside, no > > > > > > > maples > > > > > > > with compoud leaves and no large fabaceous trees. The gardeners > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > trees they don't see everywhere in the bush. In addition, the > > > > > > > locust > > > > > > > borer is absent in Europe, and consequently Black Locust is very > > > > vital > > > > > > > here - even too vital: in southern Europe it has become one of the > > > > > > > most common tree species. > > > > > > > > - Kouta > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Eastern Native Tree Societyhttp://www.nativetreesociety.org > > > > > > Send email to [email protected] > > > > > > Visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > > > > > > To unsubscribe send email to > > > > > > [email protected]<entstrees%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > > <entstrees%[email protected]<entstrees%252bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > > > -- > > > > Eastern Native Tree Societyhttp://www.nativetreesociety.org > > > > Send email to [email protected] > > > > Visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > > > > To unsubscribe send email to > > > > [email protected]<entstrees%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>- > > > > Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - -- Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected]
