Hey Steve,  I don't want to be the bringer of bad news, but, Aronia -at least 
arbutifolia and melanocarpa- have been merged in to Photinia!  There is truly 
no rest for the mind.

--- On Fri, 11/20/09, Steve Galehouse <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Steve Galehouse <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [ENTS] Re: Tree ID Help in France
To: [email protected]
Date: Friday, November 20, 2009, 10:18 PM

Kouta, Marc, ENTS-

The problem with taxonomy is often it doesn't make sense--the genera Malus, 
Pyrus, and Aronia can interbreed, as can Kalmia and Rhododendron, but the 
series within the oaks, Erythrobalanus and Lepidobalanus, cannot, nor can 
different series of maples--it doesn't make sense to have species within a 
genus more biologically separated than those between two genera. Time for 
cladistics, I guess.


Steve

2009/11/20 Kouta Räsänen <[email protected]>

Marc & Steve,



GRIN considers they still separate species:



http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?9690



(I am not claiming it's better to place them species than variety.)



- Kouta



On 20 marras, 22:41, Steve Galehouse <[email protected]> wrote:

> ENTS_

>

> There has always been a lot of speculation, and contention, within the field

> of taxonomy. It was once thought Cyprus cedar, *Cedrus brevifolia*,  was a

> separate species, but that is now included as a variety or race of *C.

> libani* as well---some authors even include Deodar as a variety of *C.

> libani*. Closer to home, some authors consider Fraser fir a sub. of balsam

> fir, pond cypress a sub of bald cypress, and Canada yew a sub. of English

> yew.

>

> Steve

>

> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Marcboston <[email protected]>wrote:

>

> > Not to complicate things but it is my understanding that Cedrus

> > atlantica has been lumped into the species libani.  The "atlantica"

> > form is now classified as a variety/sub-species of Cedrus libani at

> > least in the nursery trade.

>

> > On Nov 20, 9:45 am, Kouta Räsänen <[email protected]> wrote:

> > > Jenny, Steve et al.,

>

> > > I guess Steve has right: rather Cedar of Lebanon than Atlas Cedar

> > > because of flat-topped crown.

>

> > > There are a lot of similarities between European and your vegetation.

> > > Considering trees, there are even shared native species, like

> > > Juniperus communis and Alnus incana. Many species pairs are very

> > > similar, like Betula pendula - B. papyrifera, Ulmus laevis - U.

> > > americana, Populus tremula - P. tremuloides, Populus nigra - P.

> > > deltoides etc.

>

> > > > for some reason they are often the ones that are out of favor back in

> > North

> > > > Ameica: silver maple, box-elder, and black locust as examples.

>

> > > That's true. I think one reason is that there are not similar species

> > > in European nature: no maples with silvery leaf underside, no maples

> > > with compoud leaves and no large fabaceous trees. The gardeners like

> > > trees they don't see everywhere in the bush. In addition, the locust

> > > borer is absent in Europe, and consequently Black Locust is very vital

> > > here - even too vital: in southern Europe it has become one of the

> > > most common tree species.

>

> > > - Kouta

>

> > --

> > Eastern Native Tree Societyhttp://www.nativetreesociety.org

> > Send email to [email protected]

> > Visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en

> > To unsubscribe send email to 
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