No, science did not invent gravity--science stumbled upon the phenomenon in the laws of nature that we refer to as gravity.
The phenomenon was already there--but our senses did not have the deductive capacity to concisely identify and define it. Science is a tool sentient man INVENTED to help him unravel and understand the mysteries of nature. Science is not an end--it is a means to explore and discover the myths and character of what is provided by nature---which is laready there!. On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:04 PM, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On May 4, 8:35 pm, awori achoka <[email protected]> wrote: > > Well---this naturally takes us to the question--was there a beginning? If > > there was--did we have to know there was such a phenomenon for it to have > > been there? Assuming there were other intelligences aware of---or > probably > > part of what we suppose (since we actually do NOT know its factual > > nature) to be the beginning--before our consciences came into being--does > > that preclude the existence of the beginning? Does our ignirance of > > phenomenon in nature preclude their existence? > > > Ignorance is not a bar to what happens. What happens, happens > regardless of > our awareness of it. But this is established in the quote from Kant > which I provided. > However events that we could never know about are not within our > possible object > of our perception and only speculative of our knowledge. > As to the beginning of the universe: we can speculate about the big- > bang but we can > not know what was the condition of the universe 1 sec before it. And > there are still > problems concerned with dark matter and energy that the theory has yet > to answer. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 4:48 PM, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Since you brought up Kant. I'll let him reflect upon your answer. > > > > > We are perfectly justified in maintaining that only what is within > > > ourselves can be immediately and directly perceived, and that only my > > > own existence can be the object of a mere perception. Thus the > > > existence of a real object outside me can never be given immediately > > > and directly in perception, but can only be added in thought to the > > > perception, which is a modification of the internal sense, and thus > > > inferred as its external cause … . In the true sense of the word, > > > therefore, I can never perceive external things, but I can only infer > > > their existence from my own internal perception, regarding the > > > perception as an effect of something external that must be the > > > proximate cause … . It must not be supposed, therefore, that an > > > idealist is someone who denies the existence of external objects of > > > the senses; all he does is to deny that they are known by immediate > > > and direct perception … . > > > —Critique of Pure Reason, A367 f. > > > > > On May 4, 1:02 pm, Robert Henry <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Wel, to best sum up our ideas, you have stated that, although you > > > > dislike labels, you are a Post Kantian. If this is true, then > instead > > > > of trimming the tree branches of each other's plumage, let us start > at > > > > the root. Kant found that all knowledge, like you stated, is human > > > > and thus within the mind. Outside the mind, the thing in itself is > > > > unknowable. However, there is at least one thing known about it, > that > > > > it exists. So, my question to you is this, how do you know it > exists? > > > > > > On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 7:38 AM, chazwin <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > On May 4, 7:49 am, awori achoka <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> You made gross the mistake of stating that "the big bang was > invented > > > by > > > > >> science"---if science invented it, as you state then--the > phenomenon > > > did not > > > > >> exist or happen---except a recent scientific invention---that is a > > > hopelesly > > > > >> line of thought. > > > > > > > What ever happened 13.4 billion years ago is unknown, Human take > what > > > > > evidence they can > > > > > and invent an idea to save those appearances; they invent concepts > to > > > > > explain what they discover. > > > > > The geocentric universe was invented; pholgistan was invented, > > > > > astrology was invented. They were > > > > > all invented and portrayed as self evident facts, just like you are > > > > > with the 'big bang theory'. One day > > > > > another scientist will invent a new theory to explain some more > > > > > observations. > > > > > You are confused in your conclusion, you say if science invented it > > > > > then the phenomenon did not > > > > > happen. I am not saying that I am saying that the thing called the > > > > > geocentric universe and the big bang > > > > > are inventions. They are contingent explanations which explain > > > > > phenomena which happened. > > > > > > > I was responding to your idea that no new knowledge can be made and > > > > > that we are only repeating > > > > > what nature (or is it god) "already knows". This is just a travesty > of > > > > > the truth. > > > > > Nature knows nothing. > > > > > > >> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 12:35 AM, chazwin <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > >> > On May 3, 8:28 pm, awori achoka <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > > Your statement is based on a fallacy. No form of > study---science > > > or > > > > >> > > philosophy can purport to ''invent'' let alone create knew > > > knowledge > > > > > > >> > You are being very silly indeed. All knowledge is part of a > human > > > > >> > invention. Some languages > > > > >> > don't even make a distinction between invention and discovery. > The > > > > >> > simple point is that knowledge > > > > >> > is not the thing in itslef, no ideas can exist outside of humans > > > that > > > > >> > use them, thus knowledge is > > > > >> > wholly human dependant and it ALL exists in human praxis. > > > > > > >> > Your assertion that you can 'ONLY prove or discover' betrays > your > > > out > > > > >> > of date Platonic assumptions. > > > > >> > Let me ask you where the "geocentric" hypothesis was waiting > around > > > to > > > > >> > be discovered by the Greek > > > > >> > astronomers? Or do you think it was invented to explain certain > > > > >> > phenomena? > > > > >> > And where in nature do straight lines, integers and perfect > circles > > > > >> > exist that are just waiting to be uncovered by the likes of > Euclid? > > > > > > >> > Nature knows nothing. The statement is so banal. WHere is its > > > > >> > consciousness? It is utterly unscientific. > > > > >> > Science is a model that is literally and practically invented by > us > > > to > > > > >> > best fit or mimic that universe, but it is not > > > > >> > identical - it exists in a dialectical relationship with > experience. > > > > > > >> > I am utterly staggered by your response!!! > > > > > > >> > ---you > > > > >> > > can only prove or discover its existence---ie you can NOT > prove > > > anything > > > > >> > new > > > > >> > > outside the universal laws and elements of nature. Science is > a > > > tool to > > > > >> > > augment our inherent incapacities to fully comprehend what > nature > > > has > > > > >> > > already provided---and "knows". > > > > > > >> > > PROVE. OUR STATEMEN IS BASED ON This stament > > > > > > >> > ????? Are you kidding? > > > > > > >> > > On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 1:01 AM, chazwin <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > The thing you have to realise is that the big-bang theory IS > > > accepted > > > > >> > > > by science; it was invented by science; from evidence > provided > > > by > > > > >> > > > science.philosophy > > > > >> > > > It does NOT confirm the story of the bible, though > politically > > > the > > > > >> > > > steady state was preferable in some ways. > > > > >> > > > The simple fact is that ALL astronomy contradicts the bible > and > > > the > > > > >> > > > medieval church. > > > > >> > > > The simple fact that the entire story of creation in the > bible > > > is > > > > >> > > > contradicted by science. > > > > > > >> > > > Now if you want to assert an intelligent design hypothesis > then > > > let's > > > > >> > > > hear it, but don't confuse a bad theory with political > > > resistance of > > > > >> > > > some scientists to the ideology of fools that have tried to > > > prevent > > > > >> > > > the march of science since Ockham. > > > > > > >> > > > On May 1, 6:11 pm, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > Few ideas are so readily ridiculed among materialist > > > scientists than > > > > >> > > > > the suggestion that the universe is intelligently designed > by > > > a > > > > >> > > > > supreme being. > > > > > > >> > > > > In order to understand why this is so, we must take a look > at > > > > >> > history, > > > > >> > > > > and in particular, Hubble's discovery that the universe is > > > expanding. > > > > >> > > > > Today we accept Hubble's expansion with little doubt. But > at > > > the > > > > >> > time > > > > >> > > > > of its announcement, there was a great controversy. Why? > > > > > > >> > > > > Because up until then, the steady state theory had > prevailed. > > > In the > > > > >> > > > > steady state view, there was no beginning, no moment of > > > creation. > > > > > > >> > > > > Now why, you might ask, was the idea of a Beginning, a > Moment > > > of > > > > >> > > > > Creation, so unwelcome among scientists? > > > > > > >> > > > > It was because the Steady State Theory was directly > contrary > > > to the > > > > >> > > > > opening words of the Bible. "In the beginning, God > > > created..." The > > > > >> > > > > Bible said there was a beginning. The steady state theory > > > strongly > > > > >> > > > > suggested that there was not. Could the scientists bear > to > > > admit > > > > >> > that > > > > >> > > > > they had been wrong, and that the Bible had been right? > > > Perish the > > > > >> > > > > thought! > > > > > > >> > > > > Scientists claim to be open to any theory, even a Theory > of > > > God. > > > > >> > Just > > > > >> > > > > present the evidence, they say, and conform to the > scientific > > > method. > > > > >> > > > > If your evidence passes muster, then we have no objection > to > > > > >> > admitting > > > > >> > > > > your theory into the science text books. > > > > > > >> > > > > But scientists are not always quite the pristine seekers > after > > > truth > > > > >> > > > > that they are reputed to be. They are as concerned with > > > personal > > > > >> > gain > > > > >> > > > > as anyone else is, and by personal gain, we must include > > > egotistical > > > > >> > > > > and ideological factors as well. > > > > > > >> > > > > The Hubble announcement caused somewhat of a panic among > > > scientists > > > > >> > > > > who should have celebrated the discovery. Not only did > the > > > universe > > > > >> > > > > have a sudden beginning, but for a few tense moments, it > also > > > > >> > appeared > > > > >> > > > > that WE are at the center of the universe. > > > > > > >> > > > > A sigh of relief could all but be heard when the > centerless > > > universe > > > > >> > > > > was restored by curvature of space theory. And after a > time, > > > the > > > > >> > idea > > > > >> > > > > of a moment of creation settled in, as the primordial > point > > > particle > > > > >> > > > > seemed safely agnostic once more. > > > > > > >> > > > > With M theory, we have once again reverted to the comfort > zone > > > of a > > > > >> > > > > meta-steady-state theory, so to speak. We have unending > > > sequences of > > > > >> > > > > Big Bangs, not moments of creation, but rather, collisions > > > between > > > > >> > > > > membranes that manufacture multiple universes. In this > > > > ... > > > > read more » > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Epistemology" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<epistemology%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en. > > -- nubiaafrika.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Epistemology" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en.
