Too bad we can't discuss on the same path--you are stuck in the man determined world--which *does not exist* since he is a subject of the world as designed by nature.
On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 8:13 PM, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > Dah!! You aint getting this are you? > No, he invented it! > > And yes man is the organising principle. > > What came fist??? The laws of nature ARE manly knowledge. > Sometimes they are lopsided more or less. > > > > > > On May 9, 6:39 am, awori achoka <[email protected]> wrote: > > So in your worldview--man created the universe and all that exist in > it--ie, > > man in your thought universe---is the so called "organizing principle" > ??. > > What came first the laws of nature or lopsided manly knowledge? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 1:48 PM, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On May 8, 5:54 am, awori achoka <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I hear you well. No I am not saying that---we are arguing on > different > > > > planes of thought and it is difficult in a few sentences to explain > the > > > > differences in the paths of thought. > > > > > > What I am saying (and others here have tried to)--is that we must > > > seperate > > > > the acquisition of knowledge by man, for our self understanding > > > > from---pre-existent natural phenomena in the universe whose existence > is > > > not > > > > conditional to our ability to discover them. > > > > > BUt to do that we must, with all humility, realise that all such > > > phenomena are constructed. > > > To say that they pre-exist, or that they exist without regard to man > > > is false. > > > With this knowledge we are more able to easily modify or even change > > > our most dogmatic paradigms. > > > It is the tendancy in history, to enforce and impose such paradigms as > > > pure truth, that has, more than > > > religion or other factors, contributed to inertia and supression of > > > new ideas. > > > The four humours, four elements were taken as simple pre-existing > > > truths that existed regardless of man's > > > ability to perceive them. This was false, but took thousands of years > > > to overcome. > > > > > > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 2:44 PM, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On May 6, 5:54 pm, awori achoka <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Yes, fully agreed---the so called gravity is an abstract > > > > > > construct---fashioned by man to explain a *dimension* of nature's > > > > > laws--that > > > > > > already exists.Science is the tool we have used to charactarise > and > > > > > explain > > > > > > it---science did not invent it. > > > > > > > This is a contradiction: what you are saying is that gravity is a > > > > > concept, science is a collection of concepts > > > > > and science is invented. then you are saying science is not > invented. > > > > > If gravity is one of the concepts generated by science then gravity > is > > > > > invented. > > > > > The history of science teaches humility. A humility which you are > > > > > missing. > > > > > Would you say that the geocentric universe was NOT invented, or > that > > > > > Pholgistan was NOT invented. > > > > > Are you trying to imply that invention has to be false? > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 2:19 PM, einseele <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 5 maio, 17:53, awori achoka <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > No, science did not invent gravity--science stumbled upon the > > > > > phenomenon > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the laws of nature that we refer to as gravity. > > > > > > > > > Yes science is just a model, what you refer to gravity is an > > > abstract > > > > > > > model, the peheonmenon you "believe" you are referring to is > not > > > > > > > gravity. > > > > > > > > > > The phenomenon was already there--but our senses did not have > the > > > > > > > deductive > > > > > > > > capacity to concisely identify and define it. > > > > > > > > > Gravity has nothing to do with our senses, it is an abstract > model > > > > > > > > > > Science is a tool sentient man INVENTED to help him unravel > and > > > > > > > understand > > > > > > > > the mysteries of nature. Science is not an end--it is a means > to > > > > > explore > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > discover the myths and character of what is provided by > > > > > nature---which is > > > > > > > > laready there!. > > > > > > > > > This is partially true, but nature is also a word part of the > > > trick. > > > > > > > Nobody of the old mates here can say I'm a scientist, I'm > certainly > > > > > > > not, but also I am not the contrary position (which is...?) > Simply > > > > > > > because that geometry is unsatisfactory. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > > > > > Groups > > > > > > > "Epistemology" group. > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > [email protected] > > > . > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > > [email protected]<epistemology%[email protected]> > <epistemology%2bunsubscr...@google groups.com> > > > <epistemology%[email protected]<epistemology%[email protected]> > <epistemology%252bunsubscr...@g ooglegroups.com> > > > > > > > <epistemology%2bunsubscr...@google groups.com> > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > nubiaafrika.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > > > Groups > > > > > "Epistemology" group. > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > [email protected]. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > [email protected]<epistemology%[email protected]> > <epistemology%2bunsubscr...@google groups.com> > > > <epistemology%[email protected]<epistemology%[email protected]> > <epistemology%252bunsubscr...@g ooglegroups.com> > > > > > > > . > > > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > > > groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en. > > > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups > > > > > "Epistemology" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > . > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > [email protected]<epistemology%[email protected]> > <epistemology%2bunsubscr...@google groups.com> > > > <epistemology%[email protected]<epistemology%[email protected]> > <epistemology%252bunsubscr...@g ooglegroups.com> > > > > > > > . > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > nubiaafrika.blogspot.com > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "Epistemology" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected]<epistemology%[email protected]> > <epistemology%2bunsubscr...@google groups.com> > > > . > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en. > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "Epistemology" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected]<epistemology%[email protected]> > <epistemology%2bunsubscr...@google groups.com> > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en. > > > > -- > > > > nubiaafrika.blogspot.com > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Epistemology" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<epistemology%[email protected]> > . > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Epistemology" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<epistemology%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en. > > -- nubiaafrika.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Epistemology" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en.
