But maybe you are right. In the UK unions do not support bad teachers. Maybe my friend Darwin Joston, when her said that the US is a culture of cheats was right.
On Jun 16, 3:24 pm, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > I must commend you on a more civil approach to our disagreement. > Here is a link to a video by teachers themselves (USA) who are > commenting on their own teacher union. > I do not agree with everything they say, but these teachers are > certainly qualified to evaluate the situation they are in. > > http://vimeo.com/2439019 > > While union leaders are indeed democratically elected, > the elections themselves are not fair. Challengers to union > leadership > do not have the money or other resources that the entrenched leaders > have. > Union power is not gentle. If you as a teacher decide to try to > unseat your union leaders, > you will quickly discover that the leadership will do anything--- > anything--- > to maintain their exorbidant salaries and perquisites. > This fact is illustrated in the video. > > I don't know how things are in the UK. But in the USA, education > is a perennial crisis issue. > Of course there are many good schools here. There had better be, > considering the enormous > amounts of money that are spent. > But the bad schools remain very bad for many years before the state > finally steps in as a last resort to > remedy the matter. By then, a complete turnover of students has been > miseducated. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > On Jun 16, 3:41 am, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Jun 16, 4:50 am, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Chazwin, are you entirely unable to converse without resort to > > > occipital lobe eruptions? > > > You are confusing your own experience of me with a generalised > > statement. I m.ay react bluntly at times , but only in response to > > reactionary ideological nonsense. > > As a teacher I might have a better handle on this situation. I can > > assure you that I have never met a teacher who did not agree that > > moves to re-acquire control of the classroom was not a good idea. You > > assertion that it is all the fault of the unions is quite frankly > > idiotic. > > > > In the US, teacher unions do indeed request discipline in schools, but > > > this is far down on their list of priorities. > > > Are you a teacher? Or are you just dreaming this up? > > > > The union leadership is so entrenched that even the rank and file > > > teachers can do little to dislodge them. > > > Ideological nonsense. The union leadership is democratically elected, > > thus rank and file have th vote to 'dislodge them'. > > > > The leaders are lavishly funded and politically connected, and are > > > able to ignore the sincere teachers in the classroom. > > > The union leadership are entirely resistant to any attempts to hold > > > teachers accountable. > > > They have protested the idea of merit pay, which is bizarre, but they > > > do. > > > They reject attempts to test teachers for continuing competence. > > > There is a deep contradiction here. You are suggesting that they are > > in the hands of the government, and yet you say they manage to resist > > any change that the government is suggesting. > > > > And when parents actually attempt to give input to the schools, the > > > schools reject these attempts. > > > You are making this up as you go along. > > > > Numerous news documentaries on TV have addressed these issues, but to > > > no avail. > > > Ah, now I understand. Your evidence is the gutter press. A gutter > > press that has been scapegoating teachers for generations. > > > > The politicians constantly promise improvements, but the only increase > > > is in taxes, not in quality of education. > > > IN the UK schools suffer from annual realignments of the curriculum > > and edicts on a daily basis. Teachers know how to teach and they ought > > to be allowed to get on with it. > > > > My interest in education began some years ago when, as a new student, > > > I applied for teaching curricula in my university. > > > I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "applied for teaching curricula" > > > > Because of my age, (I was 40 then) I was interviewed, and was told > > > what to expect. > > > Things would not be as I remembered them. > > > In my years, if a student so much as said "damn" in class, he was > > > suspended. > > > Today, much harsher words, directed at high school teachers by young > > > students, > > > are considered free speech. > > > This is a very limited experience. > > > > I finally selected a curriculum in financial accounting instead. > > > > The state of government-run schools in the US is well known to be > > > awful. > > > Presented as such by the press. But who or what is to blame? > > > > Many thousands of dollars per year (per student) are spent in failing > > > school systems. > > > Nearly every state in the Union publicizes its annual efforts to > > > improve matters, > > > but next year, there is always a need for even more programs at even > > > greater cost. > > > Our test scores slip almost every year by international standards. > > > The problems and solutions are complex. Everyone thinks that because > > they have been to school that they have a fair idea of how to teach > > and that there are ready solutions. Its easy to snipe form the side- > > lines and attack your ideological bug-bears, blaming them for the ills > > of education. > > > > As a result, whenever a "charter" school opens, with limited seats > > > available, there are tens of applicants for each available seat, and > > > these are often in impoverished districts where students are trapped > > > in schools often described as hell holes. > > > Charter schools are similar to other government run schools, but with > > > the major difference being that they are locally controlled and free > > > from contracts with teacher unions. > > > Which is why every charter offered is opposed by the teacher unions. > > > I'm not surprised. What happens when a teacher gets stabbed in a > > charter school or accused of violence or touching a child? WIthout > > union support teachers can easily loose they jobs on accusation > > without legal help from the union. > > > > Teachers compete for teaching slots in these schools, even though the > > > pay is LESS. > > > Yes, there are many good, dedicated teachers who resent their own > > > union. > > > > Chaz, what is with you? > > > Must you attribute absolutely everything I say to ignorance, hate or > > > some other vile motive? > > > I just don't think you know what is really happening out there. > > > > If your interest is to simply be a provocateur, then so be it. > > > If your sense of superioroty depends on insulting those who disagree > > > with you, then I feel for you. > > > But what I suspect is that you are actually a pleasant person face to > > > face, but that you are so utterly insulated from opposing points of > > > view that you have no skill at civil discourse with those with whom > > > you disagree. > > > You are now doing what you are accusing me of. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------ > > > > On Jun 15, 8:03 pm, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Jun 15, 2:36 pm, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On Jun 14, 5:44 am, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > DO you agree with closing more schools? > > > > > > The choice is not between closing schools or not. > > > > > It is eminently possible to improve the schools AND save money. > > > > > The prescription: > > > > > > 1) enforce basic student discipline, which has eroded to atrocious > > > > > depths. > > > > > 2) establish, monitor, and enforce basic teaching standards. Many > > > > > teachers are abysmally incompetent. > > > > > 3) require at least a minimal degree of parental involvement where > > > > > feasible. Many parents are apathetic. > > > > > They should be required to pay extra for school services unless they > > > > > demonstrate some basic effort to help their children. > > > > > > There are other needed steps, but these are a good start. > > > > > The obstacle is the teacher unions, which wield enormous political > > > > > power. > > > > > As usual you are speaking from ideological ignorance. The points you > > > > raise above are all supported by unions idiot! > > > > > > Their only answer to every issue in the schools is to raise taxes and > > > > > increase spending, despite the fact that many years of this policy > > > > > have continued to produce illiterate, innumerate students. > > > > > The unions vociferously resist any attempt at holding teachers > > > > > accountable. > > > > > Plus, when taxes ARE raised, the bulk of the money goes into the > > > > > pockets of school administrators and union officials, with a bone > > > > > tossed to the teachers, and almost none of it to improving education > > > > > for the students. > > > > > More ignorance. > > > > > > > Do you want hoards of the poorest children from the most deprived > > > > > > neighbourhoods knocking on your door during daylight hours when you > > > > > > are at work? > > > > > > Melodrama. > > > > > > > Would you rather the roads fixed themselves; > > > > > > Now there's an idea! Nano tech! > > > > > > > that we go back to privatised fire-service? > > > > > > You have a talent for hyperbole. > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > > > > > On May 18, 12:57 pm, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Video--- Example of How Politicians Should Act > > > > > > > > > > Governor of New Jersey was accused by a reporter of being > > > > > > > > > confrontational. > > > > > > > > > Governor replies as follows: > > > > > > > > > >http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/13/video-chris-christie-destroys-r...text > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Epistemology" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. 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