I am not at all familiar with the educational situation in UK. I sincerely hope that it is much, much better than in the US. Someone pointed to two British labor unions as a measure of US unions. When the coal miners in UK went on strike some years ago, they got vast public support, because these men work difficult, dangerous jobs, and deserve to be compensated. When the printers union went on strike, the same British public regarded them as spoiled children demanding better ice cream, and their strike failed. The US labor unions are like the latter, including the teacher unions. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that labor and teacher unions in the US contribute enormous sums of money to political candidates who will legislate in favor of the unions. American politicians are not for sale. However, they charge exorbidant RENT for their services. This is why a voter rebellion of historic proportion is in the works. Some are calling it the Second American Revolution. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Jun 16, 7:31 pm, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > But maybe you are right. In the UK unions do not support bad teachers. > Maybe my friend Darwin Joston, when her said that the US is a culture > of cheats was right. > > On Jun 16, 3:24 pm, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I must commend you on a more civil approach to our disagreement. > > Here is a link to a video by teachers themselves (USA) who are > > commenting on their own teacher union. > > I do not agree with everything they say, but these teachers are > > certainly qualified to evaluate the situation they are in. > > >http://vimeo.com/2439019 > > > While union leaders are indeed democratically elected, > > the elections themselves are not fair. Challengers to union > > leadership > > do not have the money or other resources that the entrenched leaders > > have. > > Union power is not gentle. If you as a teacher decide to try to > > unseat your union leaders, > > you will quickly discover that the leadership will do anything--- > > anything--- > > to maintain their exorbidant salaries and perquisites. > > This fact is illustrated in the video. > > > I don't know how things are in the UK. But in the USA, education > > is a perennial crisis issue. > > Of course there are many good schools here. There had better be, > > considering the enormous > > amounts of money that are spent. > > But the bad schools remain very bad for many years before the state > > finally steps in as a last resort to > > remedy the matter. By then, a complete turnover of students has been > > miseducated. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------------- > > On Jun 16, 3:41 am, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Jun 16, 4:50 am, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Chazwin, are you entirely unable to converse without resort to > > > > occipital lobe eruptions? > > > > You are confusing your own experience of me with a generalised > > > statement. I m.ay react bluntly at times , but only in response to > > > reactionary ideological nonsense. > > > As a teacher I might have a better handle on this situation. I can > > > assure you that I have never met a teacher who did not agree that > > > moves to re-acquire control of the classroom was not a good idea. You > > > assertion that it is all the fault of the unions is quite frankly > > > idiotic. > > > > > In the US, teacher unions do indeed request discipline in schools, but > > > > this is far down on their list of priorities. > > > > Are you a teacher? Or are you just dreaming this up? > > > > > The union leadership is so entrenched that even the rank and file > > > > teachers can do little to dislodge them. > > > > Ideological nonsense. The union leadership is democratically elected, > > > thus rank and file have th vote to 'dislodge them'. > > > > > The leaders are lavishly funded and politically connected, and are > > > > able to ignore the sincere teachers in the classroom. > > > > The union leadership are entirely resistant to any attempts to hold > > > > teachers accountable. > > > > They have protested the idea of merit pay, which is bizarre, but they > > > > do. > > > > They reject attempts to test teachers for continuing competence. > > > > There is a deep contradiction here. You are suggesting that they are > > > in the hands of the government, and yet you say they manage to resist > > > any change that the government is suggesting. > > > > > And when parents actually attempt to give input to the schools, the > > > > schools reject these attempts. > > > > You are making this up as you go along. > > > > > Numerous news documentaries on TV have addressed these issues, but to > > > > no avail. > > > > Ah, now I understand. Your evidence is the gutter press. A gutter > > > press that has been scapegoating teachers for generations. > > > > > The politicians constantly promise improvements, but the only increase > > > > is in taxes, not in quality of education. > > > > IN the UK schools suffer from annual realignments of the curriculum > > > and edicts on a daily basis. Teachers know how to teach and they ought > > > to be allowed to get on with it. > > > > > My interest in education began some years ago when, as a new student, > > > > I applied for teaching curricula in my university. > > > > I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "applied for teaching curricula" > > > > > Because of my age, (I was 40 then) I was interviewed, and was told > > > > what to expect. > > > > Things would not be as I remembered them. > > > > In my years, if a student so much as said "damn" in class, he was > > > > suspended. > > > > Today, much harsher words, directed at high school teachers by young > > > > students, > > > > are considered free speech. > > > > This is a very limited experience. > > > > > I finally selected a curriculum in financial accounting instead. > > > > > The state of government-run schools in the US is well known to be > > > > awful. > > > > Presented as such by the press. But who or what is to blame? > > > > > Many thousands of dollars per year (per student) are spent in failing > > > > school systems. > > > > Nearly every state in the Union publicizes its annual efforts to > > > > improve matters, > > > > but next year, there is always a need for even more programs at even > > > > greater cost. > > > > Our test scores slip almost every year by international standards. > > > > The problems and solutions are complex. Everyone thinks that because > > > they have been to school that they have a fair idea of how to teach > > > and that there are ready solutions. Its easy to snipe form the side- > > > lines and attack your ideological bug-bears, blaming them for the ills > > > of education. > > > > > As a result, whenever a "charter" school opens, with limited seats > > > > available, there are tens of applicants for each available seat, and > > > > these are often in impoverished districts where students are trapped > > > > in schools often described as hell holes. > > > > Charter schools are similar to other government run schools, but with > > > > the major difference being that they are locally controlled and free > > > > from contracts with teacher unions. > > > > Which is why every charter offered is opposed by the teacher unions. > > > > I'm not surprised. What happens when a teacher gets stabbed in a > > > charter school or accused of violence or touching a child? WIthout > > > union support teachers can easily loose they jobs on accusation > > > without legal help from the union. > > > > > Teachers compete for teaching slots in these schools, even though the > > > > pay is LESS. > > > > Yes, there are many good, dedicated teachers who resent their own > > > > union. > > > > > Chaz, what is with you? > > > > Must you attribute absolutely everything I say to ignorance, hate or > > > > some other vile motive? > > > > I just don't think you know what is really happening out there. > > > > > If your interest is to simply be a provocateur, then so be it. > > > > If your sense of superioroty depends on insulting those who disagree > > > > with you, then I feel for you. > > > > But what I suspect is that you are actually a pleasant person face to > > > > face, but that you are so utterly insulated from opposing points of > > > > view that you have no skill at civil discourse with those with whom > > > > you disagree. > > > > You are now doing what you are accusing me of. > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------ > > > > > On Jun 15, 8:03 pm, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On Jun 15, 2:36 pm, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jun 14, 5:44 am, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > DO you agree with closing more schools? > > > > > > > The choice is not between closing schools or not. > > > > > > It is eminently possible to improve the schools AND save money. > > > > > > The prescription: > > > > > > > 1) enforce basic student discipline, which has eroded to atrocious > > > > > > depths. > > > > > > 2) establish, monitor, and enforce basic teaching standards. Many > > > > > > teachers are abysmally incompetent. > > > > > > 3) require at least a minimal degree of parental involvement where > > > > > > feasible. Many parents are apathetic. > > > > > > They should be required to pay extra for school services unless they > > > > > > demonstrate some basic effort to help their children. > > > > > > > There are other needed steps, but these are a good start. > > > > > > The obstacle is the teacher unions, which wield enormous political > > > > > > power. > > > > > > As usual you are speaking from ideological ignorance. The points you > > > > > raise above are all supported by unions idiot! > > > > > > > Their only answer to every issue in the schools is to raise taxes > > > > > > and > > > > > > increase spending, despite the fact that many years of this policy > > > > > > have continued to produce illiterate, innumerate students. > > > > > > The unions vociferously resist any attempt at holding teachers > > > > > > accountable. > > > > > > Plus, when taxes ARE raised, the bulk of the money goes into the > > > > > > pockets of school administrators and union officials, with a bone > > > > > > tossed to the teachers, and almost none of it to improving education > > > > > > for the students. > > > > > > More ignorance. > > > > > > > > Do you want hoards of the poorest children from the most deprived > > > > > > > neighbourhoods knocking on your door during daylight hours when > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > are at work? > > > > > > > Melodrama. > > > > > > > > Would you rather the roads fixed themselves; > > > > > > > Now there's an idea! Nano tech! > > > > > > > > that we go back to privatised fire-service? > > > > > > > You have a talent for hyperbole. > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > On May 18, 12:57 pm, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Video--- Example of How Politicians Should Act > > > > > > > > > > > Governor of New Jersey was > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Epistemology" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en.
