You really need to look more carefully at that video that you linked. This was not the vox pop of a few real teachers with a genuine gripe. What you saw was a well crafted and scripted piece of propaganda by an anti-union pressure group. It seems to me that Americans are so used to a TV world that they fail to distinguish between fantasy and reality. Look at it again and see if you can't 'spot the join'.
On Jun 17, 1:29 am, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > I am not at all familiar with the educational situation in UK. > I sincerely hope that it is much, much better than in the US. > Someone pointed to two British labor unions as a measure of US unions. > When the coal miners in UK went on strike some years ago, they got > vast public support, because these men work difficult, dangerous jobs, > and deserve to be compensated. > When the printers union went on strike, the same British public > regarded them as spoiled children demanding better ice cream, and > their strike failed. > The US labor unions are like the latter, including the teacher unions. > The problem is exacerbated by the fact that labor and teacher unions > in the US contribute enormous sums of money to political candidates > who will legislate in favor of the unions. > American politicians are not for sale. > However, they charge exorbidant RENT for their services. > This is why a voter rebellion of historic proportion is in the works. > Some are calling it the Second American Revolution. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Jun 16, 7:31 pm, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > But maybe you are right. In the UK unions do not support bad teachers. > > Maybe my friend Darwin Joston, when her said that the US is a culture > > of cheats was right. > > > On Jun 16, 3:24 pm, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I must commend you on a more civil approach to our disagreement. > > > Here is a link to a video by teachers themselves (USA) who are > > > commenting on their own teacher union. > > > I do not agree with everything they say, but these teachers are > > > certainly qualified to evaluate the situation they are in. > > > >http://vimeo.com/2439019 > > > > While union leaders are indeed democratically elected, > > > the elections themselves are not fair. Challengers to union > > > leadership > > > do not have the money or other resources that the entrenched leaders > > > have. > > > Union power is not gentle. If you as a teacher decide to try to > > > unseat your union leaders, > > > you will quickly discover that the leadership will do anything--- > > > anything--- > > > to maintain their exorbidant salaries and perquisites. > > > This fact is illustrated in the video. > > > > I don't know how things are in the UK. But in the USA, education > > > is a perennial crisis issue. > > > Of course there are many good schools here. There had better be, > > > considering the enormous > > > amounts of money that are spent. > > > But the bad schools remain very bad for many years before the state > > > finally steps in as a last resort to > > > remedy the matter. By then, a complete turnover of students has been > > > miseducated. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ---------------- > > > On Jun 16, 3:41 am, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Jun 16, 4:50 am, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Chazwin, are you entirely unable to converse without resort to > > > > > occipital lobe eruptions? > > > > > You are confusing your own experience of me with a generalised > > > > statement. I m.ay react bluntly at times , but only in response to > > > > reactionary ideological nonsense. > > > > As a teacher I might have a better handle on this situation. I can > > > > assure you that I have never met a teacher who did not agree that > > > > moves to re-acquire control of the classroom was not a good idea. You > > > > assertion that it is all the fault of the unions is quite frankly > > > > idiotic. > > > > > > In the US, teacher unions do indeed request discipline in schools, but > > > > > this is far down on their list of priorities. > > > > > Are you a teacher? Or are you just dreaming this up? > > > > > > The union leadership is so entrenched that even the rank and file > > > > > teachers can do little to dislodge them. > > > > > Ideological nonsense. The union leadership is democratically elected, > > > > thus rank and file have th vote to 'dislodge them'. > > > > > > The leaders are lavishly funded and politically connected, and are > > > > > able to ignore the sincere teachers in the classroom. > > > > > The union leadership are entirely resistant to any attempts to hold > > > > > teachers accountable. > > > > > They have protested the idea of merit pay, which is bizarre, but they > > > > > do. > > > > > They reject attempts to test teachers for continuing competence. > > > > > There is a deep contradiction here. You are suggesting that they are > > > > in the hands of the government, and yet you say they manage to resist > > > > any change that the government is suggesting. > > > > > > And when parents actually attempt to give input to the schools, the > > > > > schools reject these attempts. > > > > > You are making this up as you go along. > > > > > > Numerous news documentaries on TV have addressed these issues, but to > > > > > no avail. > > > > > Ah, now I understand. Your evidence is the gutter press. A gutter > > > > press that has been scapegoating teachers for generations. > > > > > > The politicians constantly promise improvements, but the only increase > > > > > is in taxes, not in quality of education. > > > > > IN the UK schools suffer from annual realignments of the curriculum > > > > and edicts on a daily basis. Teachers know how to teach and they ought > > > > to be allowed to get on with it. > > > > > > My interest in education began some years ago when, as a new student, > > > > > I applied for teaching curricula in my university. > > > > > I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "applied for teaching curricula" > > > > > > Because of my age, (I was 40 then) I was interviewed, and was told > > > > > what to expect. > > > > > Things would not be as I remembered them. > > > > > In my years, if a student so much as said "damn" in class, he was > > > > > suspended. > > > > > Today, much harsher words, directed at high school teachers by young > > > > > students, > > > > > are considered free speech. > > > > > This is a very limited experience. > > > > > > I finally selected a curriculum in financial accounting instead. > > > > > > The state of government-run schools in the US is well known to be > > > > > awful. > > > > > Presented as such by the press. But who or what is to blame? > > > > > > Many thousands of dollars per year (per student) are spent in failing > > > > > school systems. > > > > > Nearly every state in the Union publicizes its annual efforts to > > > > > improve matters, > > > > > but next year, there is always a need for even more programs at even > > > > > greater cost. > > > > > Our test scores slip almost every year by international standards. > > > > > The problems and solutions are complex. Everyone thinks that because > > > > they have been to school that they have a fair idea of how to teach > > > > and that there are ready solutions. Its easy to snipe form the side- > > > > lines and attack your ideological bug-bears, blaming them for the ills > > > > of education. > > > > > > As a result, whenever a "charter" school opens, with limited seats > > > > > available, there are tens of applicants for each available seat, and > > > > > these are often in impoverished districts where students are trapped > > > > > in schools often described as hell holes. > > > > > Charter schools are similar to other government run schools, but with > > > > > the major difference being that they are locally controlled and free > > > > > from contracts with teacher unions. > > > > > Which is why every charter offered is opposed by the teacher unions. > > > > > I'm not surprised. What happens when a teacher gets stabbed in a > > > > charter school or accused of violence or touching a child? WIthout > > > > union support teachers can easily loose they jobs on accusation > > > > without legal help from the union. > > > > > > Teachers compete for teaching slots in these schools, even though the > > > > > pay is LESS. > > > > > Yes, there are many good, dedicated teachers who resent their own > > > > > union. > > > > > > Chaz, what is with you? > > > > > Must you attribute absolutely everything I say to ignorance, hate or > > > > > some other vile motive? > > > > > I just don't think you know what is really happening out there. > > > > > > If your interest is to simply be a provocateur, then so be it. > > > > > If your sense of superioroty depends on insulting those who disagree > > > > > with you, then I feel for you. > > > > > But what I suspect is that you are actually a pleasant person face to > > > > > face, but that you are so utterly insulated from opposing points of > > > > > view that you have no skill at civil discourse with those with whom > > > > > you disagree. > > > > > You are now doing what you are accusing me of. > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > > On Jun 15, 8:03 pm, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jun 15, 2:36 pm, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jun 14, 5:44 am, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > DO you agree with closing more schools? > > > > > > > > The choice is not between closing schools or not. > > > > > > > It is eminently possible to improve the schools AND save money. > > > > > > > The prescription: > > > > > > > > 1) enforce basic student discipline, which has eroded to > > > > > > > atrocious > > > > > > > depths. > > > > > > > 2) establish, monitor, and enforce basic teaching standards. > > > > > > > Many > > > > > > > teachers are abysmally incompetent. > > > > > > > 3) require at least a minimal degree of parental involvement > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > feasible. Many parents are apathetic. > > > > > > > They should be required to pay extra for school services unless > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > demonstrate some basic effort to help their children. > > > > > > > > There are other needed steps, but these are a good start. > > > > > > > The obstacle is the teacher unions, which wield enormous political > > > > > > > power. > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Epistemology" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en.
