DO you take me for a complete wanker?? FOX NEWS!!1 You fucking arsehole.
On Jun 19, 12:46 am, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > I'll give you that these sorts of videos are usually scripted, by both > sides of the fray. > This next one was not--- it is a news item > > http://video.foxnews.com/v/4240731/teachers-battle-with-union-heats-u... > > which involves an ROTC (military prep course) teacher. > The union is attempting to force him to pay dues, even though by > contract > he cannot receive any benefits from the union. > > As to the video you commented on, these complaints by teachers have > been news items for years. > I just don't have the time to thoroughly vet each one I find. > > Here is another site, non video, which explains how to fire an > incompeternt teacher. > It consists of a flow chart, several pages long. You can click on > each page to view it. > > http://www.decimation.com/markw/2007/08/26/how-to-fire-a-teacher/ > > It is almost impossible to fire an incompetent teacher in most US > cities. > It costs about a quarter million dollars to do so, and takes months. > Even teachers who have been convicted of crimes are not necessarily > fired. > For the protection of the students, they are placed in a classroom > with no students, but only other similarly convicted teachers. They > get full pay, benefits, and seniority, including pay raises. > All of this is courtesy of the unions, who protest any firing for > almost any reason. > ------------------------------------- > > On Jun 17, 8:56 pm, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > You really need to look more carefully at that video that you linked. > > This was not the vox pop of a few real teachers with a genuine gripe. > > What you saw was a well crafted and scripted piece of propaganda by > > an anti-union pressure group. > > It seems to me that Americans are so used to a TV world that they fail > > to distinguish between fantasy and reality. > > Look at it again and see if you can't 'spot the join'. > > > On Jun 17, 1:29 am, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I am not at all familiar with the educational situation in UK. > > > I sincerely hope that it is much, much better than in the US. > > > Someone pointed to two British labor unions as a measure of US unions. > > > When the coal miners in UK went on strike some years ago, they got > > > vast public support, because these men work difficult, dangerous jobs, > > > and deserve to be compensated. > > > When the printers union went on strike, the same British public > > > regarded them as spoiled children demanding better ice cream, and > > > their strike failed. > > > The US labor unions are like the latter, including the teacher unions. > > > The problem is exacerbated by the fact that labor and teacher unions > > > in the US contribute enormous sums of money to political candidates > > > who will legislate in favor of the unions. > > > American politicians are not for sale. > > > However, they charge exorbidant RENT for their services. > > > This is why a voter rebellion of historic proportion is in the works. > > > Some are calling it the Second American Revolution. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > On Jun 16, 7:31 pm, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > But maybe you are right. In the UK unions do not support bad teachers. > > > > Maybe my friend Darwin Joston, when her said that the US is a culture > > > > of cheats was right. > > > > > On Jun 16, 3:24 pm, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I must commend you on a more civil approach to our disagreement. > > > > > Here is a link to a video by teachers themselves (USA) who are > > > > > commenting on their own teacher union. > > > > > I do not agree with everything they say, but these teachers are > > > > > certainly qualified to evaluate the situation they are in. > > > > > >http://vimeo.com/2439019 > > > > > > While union leaders are indeed democratically elected, > > > > > the elections themselves are not fair. Challengers to union > > > > > leadership > > > > > do not have the money or other resources that the entrenched leaders > > > > > have. > > > > > Union power is not gentle. If you as a teacher decide to try to > > > > > unseat your union leaders, > > > > > you will quickly discover that the leadership will do anything--- > > > > > anything--- > > > > > to maintain their exorbidant salaries and perquisites. > > > > > This fact is illustrated in the video. > > > > > > I don't know how things are in the UK. But in the USA, education > > > > > is a perennial crisis issue. > > > > > Of course there are many good schools here. There had better be, > > > > > considering the enormous > > > > > amounts of money that are spent. > > > > > But the bad schools remain very bad for many years before the state > > > > > finally steps in as a last resort to > > > > > remedy the matter. By then, a complete turnover of students has been > > > > > miseducated. > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ---------------- > > > > > On Jun 16, 3:41 am, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 4:50 am, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Chazwin, are you entirely unable to converse without resort to > > > > > > > occipital lobe eruptions? > > > > > > > You are confusing your own experience of me with a generalised > > > > > > statement. I m.ay react bluntly at times , but only in response to > > > > > > reactionary ideological nonsense. > > > > > > As a teacher I might have a better handle on this situation. I can > > > > > > assure you that I have never met a teacher who did not agree that > > > > > > moves to re-acquire control of the classroom was not a good idea. > > > > > > You > > > > > > assertion that it is all the fault of the unions is quite frankly > > > > > > idiotic. > > > > > > > > In the US, teacher unions do indeed request discipline in > > > > > > > schools, but > > > > > > > this is far down on their list of priorities. > > > > > > > Are you a teacher? Or are you just dreaming this up? > > > > > > > > The union leadership is so entrenched that even the rank and file > > > > > > > teachers can do little to dislodge them. > > > > > > > Ideological nonsense. The union leadership is democratically > > > > > > elected, > > > > > > thus rank and file have th vote to 'dislodge them'. > > > > > > > > The leaders are lavishly funded and politically connected, and are > > > > > > > able to ignore the sincere teachers in the classroom. > > > > > > > The union leadership are entirely resistant to any attempts to > > > > > > > hold > > > > > > > teachers accountable. > > > > > > > They have protested the idea of merit pay, which is bizarre, but > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > do. > > > > > > > They reject attempts to test teachers for continuing competence. > > > > > > > There is a deep contradiction here. You are suggesting that they are > > > > > > in the hands of the government, and yet you say they manage to > > > > > > resist > > > > > > any change that the government is suggesting. > > > > > > > > And when parents actually attempt to give input to the schools, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > schools reject these attempts. > > > > > > > You are making this up as you go along. > > > > > > > > Numerous news documentaries on TV have addressed these issues, > > > > > > > but to > > > > > > > no avail. > > > > > > > Ah, now I understand. Your evidence is the gutter press. A gutter > > > > > > press that has been scapegoating teachers for generations. > > > > > > > > The politicians constantly promise improvements, but the only > > > > > > > increase > > > > > > > is in taxes, not in quality of education. > > > > > > > IN the UK schools suffer from annual realignments of the curriculum > > > > > > and edicts on a daily basis. Teachers know how to teach and they > > > > > > ought > > > > > > to be allowed to get on with it. > > > > > > > > My interest in education began some years ago when, as a new > > > > > > > student, > > > > > > > I applied for teaching curricula in my university. > > > > > > > I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "applied for teaching > > > > > > curricula" > > > > > > > > Because of my age, (I was 40 then) I was interviewed, and was told > > > > > > > what to expect. > > > > > > > Things would not be as I remembered them. > > > > > > > In my years, if a student so much as said "damn" in class, he was > > > > > > > suspended. > > > > > > > Today, much harsher words, directed at high school teachers by > > > > > > > young > > > > > > > students, > > > > > > > are considered free speech. > > > > > > > This is a very limited experience. > > > > > > > > I finally selected a curriculum in financial accounting instead. > > > > > > > > The state of government-run schools in the US is well known to be > > > > > > > awful. > > > > > > > Presented as such by the press. But who or what is to blame? > > > > > > > > Many thousands of dollars per year (per student) are spent in > > > > > > > failing > > > > > > > school systems. > > > > > > > Nearly every state in the Union publicizes its annual efforts to > > > > > > > improve matters, > > > > > > > but next year, there is always a need for even more programs at > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > greater cost. > > > > > > > Our test scores slip almost every year by international standards. > > > > > > > The problems and solutions are complex. Everyone thinks that because > > > > > > they have been to school that they have a fair idea of how to teach > > > > > > and that there are ready solutions. Its easy to snipe form the side- > > > > > > lines and attack your ideological bug-bears, blaming them for the > > > > > > ills > > > > > > of education. > > > > > > > > As a result, whenever a "charter" school opens, with limited seats > > > > > > > available, there are tens of applicants for each available seat, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > these are often in impoverished districts where students are > > > > > > > trapped > > > > > > > in schools often described as hell holes. > > > > > > > Charter schools are similar to other government run schools, but > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > the major difference being that they are locally controlled and > > > > > > > free > > > > > > > from contracts with teacher unions. > > > > > > > Which is why every charter offered is opposed by the teacher > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Epistemology" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. 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