|
Hello,
Can someone tell me how I can replace the fuel gauge sight tube on my header tank. I know someone had replaces one, but I can not remember what they used to replace the tube and sealed it to the cap.
Thanks,
Tony- N94760
-------Original Message-------
Date: Monday, May 31, 2004 2:03:05 AM
Subject: Digest list: Ercoupe Technical Discussion (moderated)
----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
Message list:
1. [COUPERS-TECH] Center section question
2. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Center section question
3. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Center section question
4. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Center section question
5. [COUPERS-TECH] brs in an ercoupe?
6. [COUPERS-TECH] Snub cable on the twin fork nose gear.
7. [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
8. RE: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
9. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
10. RE: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
11. RE: [COUPERS-TECH] Snub cable on the twin fork nose gear.
12. RE: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
13. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
Messages:
From: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Center section question
When the wings are pulled to do a center section inspection, is a borescope necesssary to see everything? Or can a good job be done without it? With a wings pull, does that meet a once every three year inspection requirement? Thanks....Roger
----------------------------
From: "Paul M. Anton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,<[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Paul M. Anton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Center section question
With a wing pull alone, you cannot see all areas. I have discovered corrosion on two planes that could not be seen with the wing pull method. The corrosion was found when the inspection openings were put in.
I personally will not sign off this AD anymore by just pulling the wings. I advocate inspection openings AND wing pull for the initial inspection.
The wing pull however will satisfy the 3 year requirement when all the other stuff is done along with it. (interior sound proofing,floor boards, etc)
Cheers:
Paul
NC2273H
When the wings are pulled to do a center section inspection, is a borescope necesssary to see everything? Or can a good job be done without it? With a wings pull, does that meet a once every three year inspection requirement? Thanks....Roger
----------------------------
From: "Hartmut Beil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Hartmut Beil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Center section question
The wings pulled, you can see and feel most of the center section. the lighting holes are big enough to reach in there .
The important things to check for are of course the spars - main and rear.
And here is a slight problem. One can only see the insides of the spars . The main spar side facing to the front is covered by the tanks and the rear side spar facing to the tail is hard to see, cause of very small holes to see through. see : https://home.pacbell.net/hbeil/ercoupe/corrosion.htm
Corrosion seems to happen more likely here, so a check with a boroscope is a good idea. It does not have to be the one described in the AD, I guess, since pulling the wings is already sufficient to fulfill the AD's requirement.
Inspections holes are a good idea in the rear part of the center section, no doubt. But to thoroughly check the front of the main spar, one would have to remove the tanks also.
Hartmut
----- Original Message -----
From: roger anderson
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 10:21 AM
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Center section question
----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
When the wings are pulled to do a center section inspection, is a borescope necesssary to see everything? Or can a good job be done without it? With a wings pull, does that meet a once every three year inspection requirement? Thanks....Roger
==============================================================================
To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/
----------------------------
From: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Paul M. Anton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,<[email protected]>
Reply-To: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Center section question
Paul, Hartmut,
Thanks....Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul M. Anton
To: roger anderson ; [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Center section question
----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
With a wing pull alone, you cannot see all areas. I have discovered corrosion on two planes that could not be seen with the wing pull method. The corrosion was found when the inspection openings were put in.
I personally will not sign off this AD anymore by just pulling the wings. I advocate inspection openings AND wing pull for the initial inspection.
The wing pull however will satisfy the 3 year requirement when all the other stuff is done along with it. (interior sound proofing,floor boards, etc)
Cheers:
Paul
NC2273H
When the wings are pulled to do a center section inspection, is a borescope necesssary to see everything? Or can a good job be done without it? With a wings pull, does that meet a once every three year inspection requirement? Thanks....Roger
==============================================================================
To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/
----------------------------
From: "Jim and Helen Bauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Jim and Helen Bauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] brs in an ercoupe?
I was wondering if anyone has explored the idea of installing a brs chute on an ercoupe? Or perhaps someone has already done it?
Thank you. Jim
----------------------------
From: "Justine & Fred Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Justine & Fred Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Snub cable on the twin fork nose gear.
I have a question for the coupe experts. When I bought my coupe several years ago it did not have the snub cable on the nose gear to prevent full extension in flight. I have seen other coupes without the cable and some people feel leaving the cable off allows a slightly higher cruise speed. Regardless I have ordered the cable and intend on putting it on. My question is, with the gear fully extended ground contact will be a little sooner and faster which could cause problems. What do you folks think? My nose gear is ok, but being a D model lands faster than other models and having that gear extended has me worried. Thanks for any input F Fowler N99170,
----------------------------
From: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
My question is.....Recently, after landing and while rolling down the runway, the infamous wing lift occured, right wing up. Of course to me I felt like we were on the verge of turning over. At the same time it quickly assumed about a 45 degree track towards the right side of the runway. At this point I get to make a choice...either right aileron to bring wing down, thereby also turning even further to the right and off the runway...or left aileron to steer left and back onto the runway, but also increasing the lift of the right wing. I think it ended quickly with quick right aileron, wing down, then hard brake to slow and steer left before going off the runway. Actually, I think this happened by rolling out into a wind sheer and possible dust devil. However, how high can a wing go? Has one ever turned over? Does the wing lift ever get so high as to bring its main gear tire off the ground? Should steering straight be the first priority and ignore the wing lift? What are some thoughts and experiences on wing lift? By the way, have single axle nose wheel and correct tail height. Thanks...Roger
----------------------------
From: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Coupe-Tech" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
Roger,
Yours is the first wing lift report Ive seen in the last several years.
That problem is pretty much solved.
About 20 years ago it was a common problem and was a danger to a lot of
Coupes. Then a wise Couper, Bill Coons, went to a smart and
knowledgeable FAA engineering person in the Chicago office and got the
fix approved.
The usual reason youll get a wing lift is because the upwind wing is at
too high an angle of attack. This comes from the normal dihedral
combined with a drooping tail that makes the on-the-ground angle of
attack too high.
The Ercoupe was designed to have an almost zero angle of attack when
sitting on the ground, on the wheels. This dumps lift. Even with the
dihedral, the upwind wing doesnt have enough angle of attack and lift
to raise the wing.
As the main gear donuts (or Belleville Springs on later models) age,
they dont hold the tail up. With a drooping tail, you get that
too-high angle of attack on the ground.
Your first thing to do is check the height of the tail at its highest
point (on very level ground). It should be 75 high if you have a
single fork nose gear. Perhaps an inch or inch and a half higher if you
have a double fork nose gear.
If you tail is drooping, the first thing to do is main gear maintenance.
If you have rubber donuts, get new ones from Skyport. While you are at
it, order the main gear spacer kit from them, too. If you have
Belleville Springs, talk to John at Skyport. Put in the new donuts and,
if you need to, the spacers to get your tail to the right height.
Youll find your upwind wing no longer lifts. Youll find that a 25 mph
direct crosswind is no longer a dangerous landing. Some people fly in
higher crosswinds than that, but work up your crosswind ability with
practice.
With the dihedral of the wings, the low wing wont touch till the upwind
wing is 18 feet high and Ive never heard of a Coupe flipping but I have
heard of them being forced off the runway and having damage, sometimes
major. Get the tail height fixed ASAP. You can be flying again in two
days if you want.
If you measure your tail height and its 75 inches already, write back.
Please tell us what you find out and what you do.
Skyport Aircoupe Services
Airport NY86
P.O. Box 249
Rensselaerville, NY 12147
(800) 624-5312
Ed Burkhead
http://edburkhead.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove the QQQ)
-----Original Message-----
From: roger anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following
any advice in this forum.]----
My question is.....Recently, after landing and while rolling down the
runway, the infamous wing lift occured, right wing up. Of course to me
I felt like we were on the verge of turning over. At the same time it
quickly assumed about a 45 degree track towards the right side of the
runway. At this point I get to make a choice...either right aileron to
bring wing down, thereby also turning even further to the right and off
the runway...or left aileron to steer left and back onto the runway, but
also increasing the lift of the right wing. I think it ended quickly
with quick right aileron, wing down, then hard brake to slow and steer
left before going off the runway. Actually, I think this happened by
rolling out into a wind sheer and possible dust devil. However, how
high can a wing go? Has one ever turned over? Does the wing lift ever
get so high as to bring its main gear tire off the ground? Should
steering straight be the first priority and ignore the wing lift? What
are some thoughts and experiences on wing lift? By the way, have single
axle nose wheel and correct tail height. Thanks...Roger
========================================================================
======
To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/
----------------------------
From: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Coupe-Tech" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
Ed,
Thanks for the response. My tail height is correct at 75 inches. As I said, I think this was an unusual event caused by wind shear and a possible dust devil that actually picked up the wing and rotated the plane. I was just curious as to how common wing lift might be and what experiences anyone might have had with it. It sounds like with an 18 foot wing height necessary to drag the other wing, regardless of the pilot's impressions of "about to turn over", if wing lift occurs, steering straight would be the correct response and the wing should drop soon. Does that sound correct? Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Burkhead
To: roger anderson ; Coupe-Tech
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
Roger,
Yours is the first wing lift report I've seen in the last several years. That problem is pretty much solved.
About 20 years ago it was a common problem and was a danger to a lot of Coupes. Then a wise Couper, Bill Coons, went to a smart and knowledgeable FAA engineering person in the Chicago office and got the fix approved.
The usual reason you'll get a wing lift is because the upwind wing is at too high an angle of attack. This comes from the normal dihedral combined with a drooping tail that makes the on-the-ground angle of attack too high.
The Ercoupe was designed to have an almost zero angle of attack when sitting on the ground, on the wheels. This dumps lift. Even with the dihedral, the upwind wing doesn't have enough angle of attack and lift to raise the wing.
As the main gear donuts (or Belleville Springs on later models) age, they don't hold the tail up. With a drooping tail, you get that too-high angle of attack on the ground.
Your first thing to do is check the height of the tail at its highest point (on very level ground). It should be 75" high if you have a single fork nose gear. Perhaps an inch or inch and a half higher if you have a double fork nose gear.
If you tail is drooping, the first thing to do is main gear maintenance. If you have rubber donuts, get new ones from Skyport. While you are at it, order the main gear spacer kit from them, too. If you have Belleville Springs, talk to John at Skyport. Put in the new donuts and, if you need to, the spacers to get your tail to the right height.
You'll find your upwind wing no longer lifts. You'll find that a 25 mph direct crosswind is no longer a dangerous landing. Some people fly in higher crosswinds than that, but work up your crosswind ability with practice.
With the dihedral of the wings, the low wing won't touch till the upwind wing is 18 feet high and I've never heard of a Coupe flipping but I have heard of them being forced off the runway and having damage, sometimes major. Get the tail height fixed ASAP. You can be flying again in two days if you want.
If you measure your tail height and it's 75 inches already, write back.
Please tell us what you find out and what you do.
Skyport Aircoupe Services
Airport NY86
P.O. Box 249
Rensselaerville, NY 12147
(800) 624-5312
Ed Burkhead
http://edburkhead.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove the QQQ)
-----Original Message-----
From: roger anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]---- My question is.....Recently, after landing and while rolling down the runway, the infamous wing lift occured, right wing up. Of course to me I felt like we were on the verge of turning over. At the same time it quickly assumed about a 45 degree track towards the right side of the runway. At this point I get to make a choice...either right aileron to bring wing down, thereby also turning even further to the right and off the runway...or left aileron to steer left and back onto the runway, but also increasing the lift of the right wing. I think it ended quickly with quick right aileron, wing down, then hard brake to slow and steer left before going off the runway. Actually, I think this happened by rolling out into a wind sheer and possible dust devil. However, how high can a wing go? Has one ever turned over? Does the wing lift ever get so high as to bring its main gear tire off the ground? Should steering straight be the first priority and ignore the wing lift? What are some thoughts and experiences on wing lift? By the way, have single axle nose wheel and correct tail height. Thanks...Roger
==============================================================================
To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/
==============================================================================
To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/
----------------------------
From: "Kevin Gassert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'roger anderson'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"'Ed Burkhead'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"'Coupe-Tech'" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Kevin Gassert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
The procedure is to keep the wheel straight and apply brakes.
Kevin
_____
From: roger anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 10:59 PM
To: Ed Burkhead; Coupe-Tech
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any
advice in this forum.]----
Ed,
Thanks for the response. My tail height is correct at 75 inches. As I
said, I think this was an unusual event caused by wind shear and a possible
dust devil that actually picked up the wing and rotated the plane. I was
just curious as to how common wing lift might be and what experiences anyone
might have had with it. It sounds like with an 18 foot wing height
necessary to drag the other wing, regardless of the pilot's impressions of
"about to turn over", if wing lift occurs, steering straight would be the
correct response and the wing should drop soon. Does that sound correct?
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Burkhead <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: roger anderson <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; Coupe-Tech
<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any
advice in this forum.]----
Roger,
Yours is the first wing lift report I?ve seen in the last several years.
That problem is pretty much solved.
About 20 years ago it was a common problem and was a danger to a lot of
Coupes. Then a wise Couper, Bill Coons, went to a smart and knowledgeable
FAA engineering person in the Chicago office and got the fix approved.
The usual reason you?ll get a wing lift is because the upwind wing is at too
high an angle of attack. This comes from the normal dihedral combined with
a drooping tail that makes the on-the-ground angle of attack too high.
The Ercoupe was designed to have an almost zero angle of attack when sitting
on the ground, on the wheels. This dumps lift. Even with the dihedral, the
upwind wing doesn?t have enough angle of attack and lift to raise the wing.
As the main gear donuts (or Belleville Springs on later models) age, they
don?t hold the tail up. With a drooping tail, you get that too-high angle
of attack on the ground.
Your first thing to do is check the height of the tail at its highest point
(on very level ground). It should be 75? high if you have a single fork
nose gear. Perhaps an inch or inch and a half higher if you have a double
fork nose gear.
If you tail is drooping, the first thing to do is main gear maintenance. If
you have rubber donuts, get new ones from Skyport. While you are at it,
order the main gear spacer kit from them, too. If you have Belleville
Springs, talk to John at Skyport. Put in the new donuts and, if you need
to, the spacers to get your tail to the right height.
You?ll find your upwind wing no longer lifts. You?ll find that a 25 mph
direct crosswind is no longer a dangerous landing. Some people fly in
higher crosswinds than that, but work up your crosswind ability with
practice.
With the dihedral of the wings, the low wing won?t touch till the upwind
wing is 18 feet high and I?ve never heard of a Coupe flipping but I have
heard of them being forced off the runway and having damage, sometimes
major. Get the tail height fixed ASAP. You can be flying again in two days
if you want.
If you measure your tail height and it?s 75 inches already, write back.
Please tell us what you find out and what you do.
Skyport Aircoupe Services
Airport NY86
P.O. Box 249
Rensselaerville, NY 12147
(800) 624-5312
Ed Burkhead
http://edburkhead.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove the QQQ)
-----Original Message-----
From: roger anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any
advice in this forum.]----
My question is.....Recently, after landing and while rolling down the
runway, the infamous wing lift occured, right wing up. Of course to me I
felt like we were on the verge of turning over. At the same time it quickly
assumed about a 45 degree track towards the right side of the runway. At
this point I get to make a choice...either right aileron to bring wing down,
thereby also turning even further to the right and off the runway...or left
aileron to steer left and back onto the runway, but also increasing the lift
of the right wing. I think it ended quickly with quick right aileron, wing
down, then hard brake to slow and steer left before going off the runway.
Actually, I think this happened by rolling out into a wind sheer and
possible dust devil. However, how high can a wing go? Has one ever turned
over? Does the wing lift ever get so high as to bring its main gear tire
off the ground? Should steering straight be the first priority and ignore
the wing lift? What are some thoughts and experiences on wing lift? By the
way, have single axle nose wheel and correct tail height. Thanks...Roger
============================================================================
==
To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/
============================================================================
==
To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/
============================================================================
==
To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/
----------------------------
From: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Justine & Fred Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Coupe-Tech" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [COUPERS-TECH] Snub cable on the twin fork nose gear.
Fred,
Weve been discussing this issue (with vigor) for several years.
The Ercoupe was designed for that nose gear to go down to full
extension. If you let it go down all the way AND have the fairing that
fairs the backside of the nose gear strut and scissors, you will gain
almost exactly one (1) mph according to Fred Weick, designer of the
Coupe. He told me they had measured that carefully.
Downsides to full extension:
1. The connection inside the nose gear that keeps the end and nose
wheel from falling off isnt very substantial. John Wright, Jr., told
me he doesnt trust those connectors and I think he said hes seen on or
two (of the three?) sheered. He uses a snubber and I trust his
knowledge. Still, I havent heard of a nose gear falling off in the 25
years Ive been hanging around Coupes.
2a. With full extension, the nose wheel will touch a mite sooner. If
you make a perfect landing, low sink rate, nose well high, the mains
will touch first and the side drag may straighten the plane before the
nose wheel touches. However, the mains also have most of a foot of
shock absorber travel so usually, the nose wheel will touch before the
weight is fully on the mains.
2b. When the nose wheel touches, the nose wheel will immediately turn to
line up with the direction of travel. (Dont use the word swivel or you
ll be tarred and feathered.) This turning happens almost instantly AS
LONG AS you are NOT holding the controls firmly. Hold the yoke with a
couple of fingers to allow this sudden (jerking) turning. As soon as
the nose wheel has turned, there are no side loads to the nose gear.
There are still side loads on the main gear till the plane straightens
out but that takes a very short period of time. Then you roll out
happily.
Downsides to snubber cable:
1. The nose wheel is held up higher. If the wheel or assembly is in
the slipstream there will be a big drag penalty. Just having the gear
tube in the slipstream with no fairing costs you that 1 mph we were
talking about.
2. With the snubber cable, the nose gear has less shock absorber
travel. It may be more susceptible to damage from a hard landing.
As you can see, its not cut and dried. Theres no categorically wrong
answer. If you dont install the snubber cable, itd be smart to have a
mechanic pull the nose gear and make sure the parts are in good
condition. Also, if you dont have the fairing attached to the scissors
to fair that nose gear tube, theres less reason to not have the snubber
I had the snubber on my gear for 22 year and never felt compulsive about
taking it off. Still, Fred Weick seemed to think they were not
desirable.
Your choice.
Ed Burkhead
http://edburkhead.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove the QQQ)
-----Original Message-----
From: Justine & Fred Fowler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Snub cable on the twin fork nose gear.
----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following
any advice in this forum.]----
I have a question for the coupe experts. When I bought my coupe several
years ago it did not have the snub cable on the nose gear to prevent
full extension in flight. I have seen other coupes without the cable and
some people feel leaving the cable off allows a slightly higher cruise
speed. Regardless I have ordered the cable and intend on putting it on.
My question is, with the gear fully extended ground contact will be a
little sooner and faster which could cause problems. What do you folks
think? My nose gear is ok, but being a D model lands faster than other
models and having that gear extended has me worried. Thanks for any
input F Fowler N99170,
========================================================================
======
To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/
----------------------------
From: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Coupe-Tech" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
Roger,
My thanks to Kevin. He reminded us of something important.
The ERCO test pilot was Bob Saunders. Later, he and his brother bought
rights to the Ercoupe and sold the inventory and made some as Saunders
Aviation if I remember the name correctly.
About ten years ago, when I was editing Coupe Capers, Bob wrote a letter
on this subject.
Bob said that hitting the brakes was a key thing to do when you
encounter wing lift. It immediately slows the plane and drops the wing.
So, what Kevin said is correct. Steer straight ahead and hit the
brakes. I think youre right that it was something of a fluke. If you
get repeats, let us know.
Bob knew Ercoupes well. He was part of the original design team as well
as being test pilot. When Saunders Aviation was selling/making Coupes,
Bob developed the split elevator to minimize the slipstreams effect on
trim and stall performance. That was an improvement Fred Weick liked.
He said he wished hed thought of it.
Ed Burkhead
http://edburkhead.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove the QQQ)
-----Original Message-----
From: roger anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:59 PM
To: Ed Burkhead; Coupe-Tech
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
Ed,
Thanks for the response. My tail height is correct at 75 inches. As I
said, I think this was an unusual event caused by wind shear and a
possible dust devil that actually picked up the wing and rotated the
plane. I was just curious as to how common wing lift might be and what
experiences anyone might have had with it. It sounds like with an 18
foot wing height necessary to drag the other wing, regardless of the
pilot's impressions of "about to turn over", if wing lift occurs,
steering straight would be the correct response and the wing should drop
soon. Does that sound correct? Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Burkhead <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: roger anderson <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; Coupe-Tech
<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following
any advice in this forum.]----
Roger,
Yours is the first wing lift report Ive seen in the last several years.
That problem is pretty much solved.
About 20 years ago it was a common problem and was a danger to a lot of
Coupes. Then a wise Couper, Bill Coons, went to a smart and
knowledgeable FAA engineering person in the Chicago office and got the
fix approved.
The usual reason youll get a wing lift is because the upwind wing is at
too high an angle of attack. This comes from the normal dihedral
combined with a drooping tail that makes the on-the-ground angle of
attack too high.
The Ercoupe was designed to have an almost zero angle of attack when
sitting on the ground, on the wheels. This dumps lift. Even with the
dihedral, the upwind wing doesnt have enough angle of attack and lift
to raise the wing.
As the main gear donuts (or Belleville Springs on later models) age,
they dont hold the tail up. With a drooping tail, you get that
too-high angle of attack on the ground.
Your first thing to do is check the height of the tail at its highest
point (on very level ground). It should be 75 high if you have a
single fork nose gear. Perhaps an inch or inch and a half higher if you
have a double fork nose gear.
If you tail is drooping, the first thing to do is main gear maintenance.
If you have rubber donuts, get new ones from Skyport. While you are at
it, order the main gear spacer kit from them, too. If you have
Belleville Springs, talk to John at Skyport. Put in the new donuts and,
if you need to, the spacers to get your tail to the right height.
Youll find your upwind wing no longer lifts. Youll find that a 25 mph
direct crosswind is no longer a dangerous landing. Some people fly in
higher crosswinds than that, but work up your crosswind ability with
practice.
With the dihedral of the wings, the low wing wont touch till the upwind
wing is 18 feet high and Ive never heard of a Coupe flipping but I have
heard of them being forced off the runway and having damage, sometimes
major. Get the tail height fixed ASAP. You can be flying again in two
days if you want.
If you measure your tail height and its 75 inches already, write back.
Please tell us what you find out and what you do.
Skyport Aircoupe Services
Airport NY86
P.O. Box 249
Rensselaerville, NY 12147
(800) 624-5312
Ed Burkhead
http://edburkhead.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove the QQQ)
-----Original Message-----
From: roger anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following
any advice in this forum.]----
My question is.....Recently, after landing and while rolling down the
runway, the infamous wing lift occured, right wing up. Of course to me
I felt like we were on the verge of turning over. At the same time it
quickly assumed about a 45 degree track towards the right side of the
runway. At this point I get to make a choice...either right aileron to
bring wing down, thereby also turning even further to the right and off
the runway...or left aileron to steer left and back onto the runway, but
also increasing the lift of the right wing. I think it ended quickly
with quick right aileron, wing down, then hard brake to slow and steer
left before going off the runway. Actually, I think this happened by
rolling out into a wind sheer and possible dust devil. However, how
high can a wing go? Has one ever turned over? Does the wing lift ever
get so high as to bring its main gear tire off the ground? Should
steering straight be the first priority and ignore the wing lift? What
are some thoughts and experiences on wing lift? By the way, have single
axle nose wheel and correct tail height. Thanks...Roger
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From: Darwin Girdauckis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: roger anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 'Coupetech' <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Darwin Girdauckis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] The infamous "wing lift"
I don't know if this has happened to any one else but our coupe had this
problem even with
correct tail height & properly rigged flight controles. When we took off
we were always
fighting the yoke to a little to the left unless we had a cross wind
from the left. As we took off,
the plane would veer a little to the left & then straighten out. On
landing, we would have to
fight the controle a little to the left to keep the plane straight & the
right wing would sometimes raise untill the
plane slowed down.When we put the newer style nose gear steering rod on,
the shop guys
made the new rod the same length as the old rod (the old dangerous ball
type) When we took it up the first time we were
paying very close attention to how the steering performed. This is when
we noticed (FOR THE FIRST TIME)
that as we were taxing, the yoke was to the left. I think it was like
that all along but we just didn't notice
it before. Any way, the yoke is level when we are in level flight. It
finally dawned on us that the
nose wheel was not alighned with the flight controles. Lengthening the
steering rod 1.5 turns made a world of
difference. Check your yoke position when you are taxing straight. It
may seem obvious but see if
the yoke is straight!
Darwin
roger anderson wrote:
> ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
>
>
>
> My question is.....Recently, after landing and while rolling down the
> runway, the infamous wing lift occured, right wing up. Of course to
> me I felt like we were on the verge of turning over. At the same time
> it quickly assumed about a 45 degree track towards the right side of
> the runway. At this point I get to make a choice...either right
> aileron to bring wing down, thereby also turning even further to the
> right and off the runway...or left aileron to steer left and back onto
> the runway, but also increasing the lift of the right wing. I think
> it ended quickly with quick right aileron, wing down, then hard brake
> to slow and steer left before going off the runway. Actually, I
> think this happened by rolling out into a wind sheer and possible dust
> devil. However, how high can a wing go? Has one ever turned over?
> Does the wing lift ever get so high as to bring its main gear tire off
> the ground? Should steering straight be the first priority and
> ignore the wing lift? What are some thoughts and experiences on wing
> lift? By the way, have single axle nose wheel and correct tail
> height. Thanks...Roger
>
> ==============================================================================
> To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
> Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/
>
>
>
>
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