Wayne,
None of the coupes that crashed were mine until after they crashed. The one in
Panacea, FL wasn't worth any salvage activity as it burned completely along
with both passengers. Therefore I only have information after the fact.
Whether or not the owners did proper maintenance, sumpted the tanks and carbs,
or anything else, I simply don't know. I do know the fine screen in the fuel
pump only is required to be cleaned on annuals. It does not have an enormous
amount of area and could become clogged between annuals.
Thanks for everyone's comments and opinions.
Lee
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Lee, Was the brown substance that clogged up the fuel systems in these
airplanes not present in the fuel samples when the tanks were sumped? I don't
undersatnd how there could be enough brown substance to clog up the fuel system
enough to cause an engine failure, and yet not show up in the samples drained
from the fuel sumps. If there was a history of brown stuff in the fuel
samples, then it should have been obvious that the fuel system was contaminated
and the plane should have been grounded until the source of the contamination
was found and all of the contaminate was removed.
Hartmut's explanation of the fuel filtering scheme used in the Coupes sounds
right on the money to me. The only thing that I would add is that the
gascolator screen is a very fine screen, and it is very large, and it is
designed to be disassembled and cleaned on a regular basis. If you install a
very fine screen in the place of the existing internal fuel tank screens, how
are you ever going to clean those screens?
In my opinion, if you are consistently getting brown contaminants out of the
tanks when you sump the tanks, then you have an unairworthy fuel system and it
needs to be fixed, even if that means having the fuel tanks disassembled and
rebuilt. If you don't have a contaminated fuel system, and you do a proper
preflight inspection, then the existing screens are more than adequate to do
the job they were designed to do. I suspect that the real problem with these
engine failures is not inadequate fuel screens, but inadequate preflight
inspections and inadequate maintenance.
Best Regards,
Wayne DelRossi
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 7:42 am
Subject: Re: [ercoupe-tech] Tank cleaning
Well guys and gals, I can only speak to what I know first hand. 4 planes that
I have personal knowledge of have crashed due to fuel starvation that was
precipitated by a brown substance that clogged the fuel system. It would
appear obvious that whatever we have now wasn't enough, so it seemed plausable
to me that a filter that removes contaminates down to the micron (which are in
autos that can pull off the road and stop should the engine stop) would be an
acceptable solution. The responses to this suggestion all have merit and give
me pause to adding any filters and cause me to seek another method of removing
contaminates before they cause a problem. I am thinking that a close mesh
nylon filter to replace the current coarse metal screen currently on the
existing tanks would be abetter solution. A long screen, perhaps 3" long would
serve the same purpose and not add any restriction. Bottom line is that I
haven't had to land in any corn fields, lakes or trees and don't want to and I
only know of one pilot that enjoyed such ventures.Lee
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have to agree with John. There are plenty of "filters" in the fuel system
already. If the tanks are sumped before every single flight like they are
supposed to be, and if you don't get any dirt when you sump the tanks, then how
could you possibly get enough dirt on any one screen to starve the engine of
fuel? If the tanks are sumped and there is consistently dirt, sloshing
compound or some other stuff in the drained fuel, then the problem should be
investigated and fixed. Adding another fuel filter adds one more fuel system
component and two more hose connections, all of which could cause problems of
their own. I sump my tanks before every single flight, regardless of how long
ago the plane was last flown, or whether or not I refueled the airplane. I
occasionally get a little dirt or water out of the wing tanks, and every great
once in a while I might get a drop or two of water out of the nose tank, but I
virtually never get any water or dirt when I sump the gascolator, and the
gascolator screen is perfectly clean and has been that way for over 2 years and
330 flying hours since the plane was restored. Adding a fuel filter isn't
going to save someone who refuses to do a proper preflight inspection.
On a related subject, the times I do get a significant amount of water out of
the tanks is after washing the airplane. My fuel tank caps are vented, and even
though I completely tape up the entire fuel cap, I stll get water in the tanks
when washing the plane. Usually it takes several iterations of sumping the
tanks, shaking the plane, waiting a few minutes and then sumping the tanks
again to get all of the water out. It is necessary to shake the plane between
sumpings (is that a word?) because water will collect along the ribs in the
tanks, and will stay there until the fuel sloshes it out of there.
Just my opinion.
Wayne DelRossi
-----Original Message-----
From: Joh n Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 9:48 am
Subject: RE: [ercoupe-tech] Tank cleaning
Lee, et al: There is a screen in the fuel pump and another in the gascolator.
In addition, the carburetor has its own screen, and there are finger screens in
the outlet fittings for all three tanks. Adding another filter will only move
the blockage to another point in the system. John Cooper, A&PSkyport
ServicesPO Box 2494996 Delaware TnpkRensselaerville, NY 12147518 797-3064Fax
518 797-3865www.skyportservices.net From: [email protected]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 6:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ercoupe-tech] Tank cleaning Group, I am unfortunately aware of 4
Ervoupe crashes that have been caused by fuel starvation. The starvation was
the results of a brown material either causing the fuel pump to not provide
fuel to the fuselage tank or blocking fuel flow to the carburetor. It has been
determined the brown material was the originally installed material know as
sloshing compound.It is a mystery to me that with all the precautions taken by
FAA, why was a fuel filter not installed on the suction side of the fuel pump
and between the fuselage tank and carburetor. Unfortunately, I do not have a
flying Ercoupe right now, but when and if I get another one, I will install
filters in both locations and hopefully get approval with a 337.Lee Browning
-- "John W. Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
A good question. Here it is 60 plus years and still no filters. I
suppose they could be added with a 337?
John
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote:
> John,
>
> I have never understood why there is no fuel filter between the
> fuselage tank and carburetor and on the suction side of the fuel
> pump. That would have saved several lives and prevented more crashes.
>
> Lee
>
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