A lot of this is pilot technique. If you land with a high nose attitude you won't have as much problems as one who does not. The size of the nose tire and fork type also plays in here. Syd, as I recall you have a single fork and 4 inch wheel? Call me a crappy pilot if you like but I have a duel fork and 5 inch wheel and I don't tend to land in a very nose high attitude. I took my cable off about 25 years ago and after a couple landings put it back on and intend to keep it that way and have no problems with crosswind landings.
Kevin1 --- In [email protected], Syd Cohen <sydl...@...> wrote: > > Methinks not, Bart. I've made over 6800 landings in my Coupe, some slow, > some fast, but most about 50 mph, and have never touched the nose gear first. > All three tires extend about 12" lower when in flight compared to when the > plane is on the ground, not just the nose tire. I removed my snubber cable > about 25 years ago. > > Syd > > > > > On Aug 18, 2010, at 9:19 PM, bbart...@... wrote: > > > > > This is overanalyzing something very simple. If you land hot, you are > > standing a good chance of the nose gear touching first. Leads to a PIO. > > In any airplane. Especially in an Ercoupe with limited elevator up travel. > > Me thinks. > > Bart > > > > In a message dated 8/18/2010 9:02:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, e...@... > > writes: > > > > > > > > On 2010-08-18 6:47 PM, bbart...@... wrote: > > > > > >> > >> I've heard this over and over but if that little cable isn't on the nose > >> gear and your landing speed is a little hot, you will hit the nose gear > >> first, because the nose gear hangs down lower, and enter to what many is > >> called a JC maneuver, as in "J-----s C------t!!!!!!!!!!! > >> It is also called a PIO, or pilot induced oscillation and is the primary > >> reason a lot of Ercoupes have a bent firewall. I say keep the cable and > >> save the Ercoupe. > >> Bart > > > > Bart, > > > > (long, but useful I think - in four parts) > > > > I've been around Coupes - and paying close attention - for most of 32 > > years, now and I can say I've never heard that one. > > > > Please let me elaborate. > > > > If you land hot (or slow), even in a crab with no snubber cable and the > > nose gear hanging way down AS DESIGNED, then the nose gear will touch soon > > after the mains and before significant weight is on the mains. > > > > No huhu! > > > > The nose gear can turn. > > > > That is, unless you are disregarding the Ercoupe piloting instructions > > which say you should hold the yoke lightly so the nose wheel is free to > > turn. > > > > So, the side load on the nose wheel is instantly relieved. The mains, > > being laterally fixed, cannot relieve their side loads except by turning > > the whole plane, AS DESIGNED. > > > > It works. I've done it over and over including in direct crosswinds up to > > 30 mph with never more than a 10 foot diversion from the runway center line. > > > > If and only if you hold the yoke in a tight grip and don't allow it to > > jerk, then you can get a significant diversion from the runway center line. > > __________________________________ > > > > PIO, Pilot Induced Oscillation, is a term that can probably be applied to > > several flying situations. The one that applies to landings is when the > > pilot fails to make a smooth flare from the final glide to the virtually > > horizontal flight just before touchdown. Sometimes pilots, especially new > > or out-of-practice pilots will pull too hard on the yoke, flare nose high > > and getting slower, push too hard to get the nose down and find themselves > > heading nose down toward the runway and . . . Sometimes they'll hit nose > > down after a single oscillation, sometimes they'll keep it in the air > > through a few oscillations but if they don't get it under control they may > > well hit the ground nose down, folding under the nose gear and bending the > > firewall. > > > > This has nothing to do with the snubber cable - except, if the snubber > > cable is present then the nose gear has much less of its designed shock > > absorption capability so an impact that might have been saved by the shock > > absorber could cause sever damage because the snubber cable is present. > > ___________________________________ > > > > Dave Winters makes an interesting point and I agree with Bill - I hadn't > > thought of the snubber cable that way, as an advantage on a rudder pedal > > equipped Coupe. I have flown hundreds of hours in a rudder pedal Coupe > > with a snubber cable and I did do a LOT of side-slip, wing-low touchdowns, > > upwind main first, then downwind main then nose. It may well be that the > > snubber cable helped make that u-main, d-main, nose sequence work out so > > well. Well explained, Dave! > > > > (Side note: At crosswind speeds above 15 mph crosswind component, I > > leveled the wings and landed like a 2-control Coupe. There was enough > > rudder effectiveness to exactly counter a 15 mph direct crosswind but not > > more. However, landing in a crab with wings level, the three control Coupe > > handles strong crosswinds just a nicely as does a 2-control Coupe. > > ___________________________________ > > > > The real J_____ C_____ maneuver with a Coupe is when you have a drooping > > tail. In that case, the wings can be at enough of a positive angle of > > attack on the ground that a strong crosswind can lift a wing after the > > landing. It can be so bad that the pilot may think he/she will touch the > > downwind wingtip (but that's extremely unlikely to happen due to the > > dihedral). And, wheelbarrowing along on the nose and one main with a wing > > reaching for the sky is highly scary and likely to cause diversion off the > > runway into any obstacle within a hundred feet or more. > > > > Thus, it is VERY valuable to have your main landing gear maintenance up to > > date and have your on-the-ground attitude very nearly level as measured by > > the datum, the windowsill. > > > > When the Coupe is level in pitch on the ground, the wings have nearly zero > > angle of attack so they have virtually no lift and on the ground behavior > > is proper even with strong crosswinds. > > > > Ed > > > > > > >
