Randall Clague wrote:

> At 11:02 AM 06/15/2002, Ian Woollard wrote:
>
>> However. all my rockets (under 10 tonnes all up) seem to have difficulty
>> reaching orbit if they have a diameter much above 20 cm or so. Has 
>> anyone
>> else found this, or am I messing up my aerodynamics
>
> No; it's a real scaling effect, the square/cube law.  As the vehicle 
> gets smaller, because the area goes down less rapidly than the volume 
> (and mass), drag losses become more important relative to gravity 
> losses.  It eventually reaches the point that you have to care about 
> drag.

> Shuttle throttle back isn't for efficiency, it's for aerodynamic load 
> management.  Something about not wanting the wings to come off.  
> That's what they get for bringing along wings, if you ask me.  :-)

I always thought they should lose the wings, but not quite like that ;-)

> As you've discovered, SSTO with a small vehicle requires trajectory 
> optimization, which in turn is a balancing act as you trade off drag 
> losses against gravity losses.  There is probably a minimum size (for 
> a given shape, mass fraction, propellant type, engine, etc.) below 
> which a single stage vehicle can't make orbit.

In theory you can make the rocket thinner, but that probably leads to 
structural
issues- can a 20cm wide 6m long pole survive takeoff stresses- will it 
buckle,
resonate? etc. etc.

Mockingbird planned on a diameter of 80cm. I don't understand how it can be
that wide at the moment, but I doubt my software a little- modelling 
drag, particularly
supersonic drag its tricky to model.

Anyway aerodynamics is quite critical.

>> I think I prefer the Carter Copter architecture for an air vehicle 
>> provided it can be
>> a) mass produced
>> b) given more or less ensured stability.via computer control
>>
>> The aerodynamic efficiency should be higher; and the system is 
>> simpler and should
>> be cheaper to maintain; and for air vehicles good aerodynamics is 
>> rather important.
>> Also the failure modes of Carter Copter should be more benign in most 
>> cases..
>
> I was thinking about this...  A powered lift vehicle is always going 
> to have a harder time of it, regulatorily, than a helicopter, 
> autogyro, or other rotary wing aircraft.  With a rotary wing, if you 
> lose power, you still have a wing.  With powered lift, if you lose 
> power, you have neither a wing nor a prayer to save you.  And FAA 
> doesn't like ejection seats in civilian aircraft... 

Still, IRC losing your engines on a 767 jet aircraft just after takeoff- 
you're screwed. Doesn't matter
if you can make it back to the airport; the mass is too high to land 
without dumping the fuel-
but you don't have time to do that. You're gonna have a bad day one way 
or another.

The only solution; and this is the one used by 767, is multiple engines, 
as independent as possible.
I'd like to think that regulations are ultimately based on commonsense. ;-)

> -R



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