Whether the Alltrax is programmable or not depends on the model. The AXE series are programmable. It's been a while since I looked at the options, but I am pretty sure there is no current cutback on a low battery voltage. There is a low battery voltage cuttoff, and a max current setting. As your batteries sag you obviously have less power since your power is your volts times your current. Also, series wound motors generally draw current in a non linear fashion. It is typical that double your voltage quadruples your current draw, so everything may be related to your voltage sag, although you have not provided enough details to say for sure. If your controller is non programmable it is also possible that Alltrax has programmed something into it for you which is the cause of the loss of power. Just because the controller feels cooler to you does not mean it feels cooler to the temperature sensor buried inside it somewhere, you did mention it recovers faster so it may still be getting too hot inside under load, but you are doing a better job of dissipating the heat after it cuts back. Also, they could have programmed something into it strictly on voltage... That should be easy to test though. Pull a battery or two out and see if it still cuts back at the same voltage before it has a chance to heat up... I doubt it. It sounds to me like you are still having thermal issues. damon
> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 16:05:51 -0600 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [EVDL] e-volks upgrade.... > > Well... I added a heat sink to the controller -- big finned thing bigger > than the controller, with a 7" cooling fan (from a transmission cooler > unit) on it. It doesn't get hot now... but it's still going into current > limit after a while. Seems to be better, and recovers faster, but it still > drops to only 80 amps or so after a few miles (battery amps). Hmmmmm. > Batteries are staying around 61 volts under load. Motor was hot to the > touch (you could keep your hands on it for a few seconds, but not longer) > and controller heat sink was barely warm to the touch after the run. > > Is it possible that it's reducing current because of battery sag and not > just controller temp? Does the alltrax have a cutback for battery > voltage that you can program? > > Stats for the last test: > 6 miles on 23AH > about 600 feet of climbing in the first 1.5 miles, and it was doing quite > well for about half of that, pulling 160 battery amps or so. Then it > started dropping off.... > Batteries had sat (fully charged) for a month since the last test and I > just topped them off before testing it, which seems to make them reluctant > to give up power quite as easily, versus a full fresh charge. We'll test > it again tomorrow with a fresh charge. > > Z > > > On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Mike Scott <[email protected]>wrote: > > > I just went to the local plastic store where I bought a few pieces from > > their scrap bin. I got some 1/8" ABS sheet so that I can make a little box > > to cover the potbox. It's really easy to cut, using a saw or even a hobby > > knife. It goes together more or less permanently with ABS cement. > > > > I previously bought some 1/2" scraps to mount the potbox on as my location > > was just a little tight without spacing it away from the body. Also used > > two layers of the same stuff to put my DC-DC on since it would have had the > > output ground post riding against one of the HV conduits without the extra > > height. Very easy to drill and provides a little isolation as well, though > > it will not transfer heat to the body sheet-metal. For the potbox that > > won't matter , for the DC-DC I have a pair of fans mounted on the heatsink, > > with some snap switches to turn them on in two stages, 20 deg, and 30 deg. > > C. > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Zeke Yewdall <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Second run of the night. 8.2 miles, going back and forth on a flatish > > > section of the highway (still obviously not flat, because I could go way > > > faster one way than the other). Goes 45mph at times :) Down 32 > > amphours, > > > so around 2kW. So, still around 250whrs/mile. There is something > > rubbing > > > in one front wheel (dragging brake maybe?) so I can probably improve > > that. > > > I haven't even checked the tire pressure, either. When I first started > > > out, it would pull 230 battery amps. As it warmed up, that dropped and > > > dropped till finally, it would only pull 80 amps from the battery. The > > > controller is getting quite hot -- no heat sink or fan or anything on it, > > > so not surprising. Battery voltage never dropped below 60 volts under > > > load, though the load did keep decreasing..... parked it for 30 minutes, > > > and it was back to being peppy, even before recharging. Looks like the > > > next order of business is to put a heat sink and fan on the controller. > > I > > > do have an analogue ammeter that I could put on the motor side to show > > > motor amps as well, if I find another shunt for it. > > > > > > I did find that the cable to the S2 terminal of the motor was loose, and > > > getting very very hot under the 230 battery amps (probably higher motor > > > amps) as in I could smell it while driving, and it was blackened around > > the > > > terminal. I need to look at it in the light and see if it got damaged > > -- I > > > tightened it back up but it was too dark to see well, and I'm not sure if > > > the plastic bushing melted where it goes through the motor casing. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:28 PM, Zeke Yewdall <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Update -- got the new Elcon 1200 watt charger in, and some actual > > > circuit > > > > breakers and such, instead of just lots of wires bolted together. Got > > > the > > > > Xantrex E-xpert Pro battery monitor as well, and have some actual run > > > data > > > > now. > > > > > > > > Took it for a 4.9 mile drive, all dirt road and lots of hills both ways > > > > (in case it died, so I wouldn't be stuck on the highway, and it doesn't > > > > matter if I'm going 5mph on the dirt road up the hills). > > > > > > > > According to the monitor, I used 20AH, which at about 62 volts (what > > the > > > > batteries were sitting at most of the time under load), is 1.24 kWh, so > > > > around 250wh/mile from the batteries -- I don't consider that too bad > > for > > > > dealing with hills on a dirt road. Not having regen was painful > > > (mentally) > > > > -- riding the brakes all the way down a hill, then crawling up the next > > > one > > > > :) > > > > > > > > Peak amps was about 200, and batteries were sagging to about 60 volts > > > > under that load. Popping back up to 69 to 70 volts almost immediately > > > when > > > > load removed. On one of the steeper hills, it would not go over about > > > 100 > > > > amps -- controller (Altrax 450) was hot to the touch, and so was the > > > motor, > > > > when this happened. Battery voltage was around 62 volts under this > > load. > > > > I wonder if the Alltrax was current limiting for temp -- this was near > > > the > > > > end of the drive, and towards the beginning it seemed happy to do more > > > like > > > > 160 to 200 amps when you really pushed it. > > > > > > > > The monitor said I was down to 33% battery capacity after taking out > > only > > > > 20AH -- puekert is obviously killing me. 12 volt AGMS, and I told the > > > > monitor they were 80AH instead of 100AH that they claim (since they are > > > not > > > > new). http://www.npstelecom.com/pdfs/Dyn_UPS/UPS_12-370.pdf > > > > > > > > Question on the PB-6 throttle..... is it good for that to be getting > > wet > > > > all of the time... because it is, being in the old VW bug engine > > > > compartment in back. Rain drips right down on it. > > > > > > > > It's on the charger now, and after dinner I'll take it out for another > > > > spin on flatter ground (the highway) since I've got a little more faith > > > in > > > > how it runs now. > > > > > > > > Topography of the run was dropping about 440 feet over a mile, with the > > > > steepest section being a little over 10% grade, rising 100 feet over > > 3/4 > > > > mile, then dropping 80 feet over 3/4 mile, then turn around and run the > > > > opposite way. Total climbing = 620 feet vertical. > > > > > > > > Z > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >>> On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Zeke Yewdall <[email protected] > > > >wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> According to the specs, the motor is from D&D, and is 12.28" long x > > > >>>> 6.7" diam, and weighs 62 lbs. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> If it were me, I'd probably go with the AC-35 or AC-50 from > > HPEV's... > > > >>>> I like the specs on those, and what I've been hearing about their > > > >>>> performance. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Lee Hart <[email protected] > > > >wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> On 5/23/2013 4:18 PM, Danpatgal wrote: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> Lee Hart wrote > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Is the 6.7" series DC motor enough for this heavy of a car? > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> The L91 in my LeCar is more than adequate to do 70 mph. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> You don't actually go 70 in your LeCar, do you ? ;) > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> It takes a while to get up to 70 mph, but it does get there. :-) > > No, > > > I > > > >>>>> don't normally drive it over 55 mph, as none of the roads around > > > here have > > > >>>>> posted speed limits that high. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Note that I don't have the stock Lectric Leopard Prestolite 48v > > > motor, > > > >>>>> but instead an ADC L91. I have a Curtis 1231C controller. I also > > had > > > a > > > >>>>> 132vdc pack at the time of the 70 mph speed run. It's at 120vdc > > now. > > > I > > > >>>>> haven't tried to see how fast it will go now. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> I also have the L91 in my LeCar, I've maxed out at 65 (once), and > > > >>>>>> with more > > > >>>>>> than 250 amps (at 120v) > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Odd. Mine draws about 70 amps at 50 mph, 100 amps at 60 mph, and > > 150 > > > >>>>> amps at 70 mph. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> I've been happy with it in the small vehicle - it's no tire > > burner, > > > >>>>>> but I > > > >>>>>> generally keep up with traffic. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Same here. The L91 is no racing motor, but it is decent for an > > > >>>>> around-town car. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> For a small car like a Beetle, to get 50-60 miles range with > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> lead, you've got to have 1000 lbs of lead, or MORE. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> I'd say that's about right. John Bryan was getting that kind of > > range > > > >>>>> with his Karmann Ghia with 16 Optimas (about a 900 lbs pack), but > > he > > > was > > > >>>>> very good at keeping his rolling resistance low. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> To me that's not worth the weight performance hit, space > > > requirements, > > > >>>>>> hassle to keep watered, worse winter sagging, Puekert effect and > > > short > > > >>>>>> pack life, compared to lithium. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> That may all be true to some extent. There are ways to deal with > > all > > > >>>>> these issues. However, I have gotten 15 years and three lead-acid > > > packs for > > > >>>>> less than it would have cost me for lithium. And I don't know if > > the > > > >>>>> lithiums will actually have lasted that long. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> I live in a small town, and lead meets my driving needs. So I'm > > > >>>>> content to let others go first! :-) > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> If I had another $5k I'd have replaced the motor and controller > > and > > > >>>>>> put in > > > >>>>>> the HPEVS AC50. Perhaps in my next build (if it ever happens) or > > > >>>>>> upgrade > > > >>>>>> #2. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> More money = more performance and better range. Each person just > > > >>>>> needs to decide how much he needs, and is willing to pay. > > > >>>>> -- > > > >>>>> Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in > > > overalls > > > >>>>> and looks like work. -- Thomas A. Edison > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> -- > > > >>>>> Lee A. Hart, http://www.sunrise-ev.com/**LeesEVs.htm< > > > http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm> > > > >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ > > > >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/**index.html#usub< > > > http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub> > > > >>>>> http://lists.evdl.org/**listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org< > > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org> > > > >>>>> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > > >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/**group/NEDRA< > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA> > > > >>>>> ) > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > > > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20130724/02208ff2/attachment.htm > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20130728/0ab414e1/attachment.htm > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20130828/0653c29b/attachment.htm> > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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