-OT pih trucks & suvs-
% Following the evdl member voted charter, pih is considered an Off-Topic, so lets try to round up pih discussions quicker, ending them sooner than EV discussions % IMO, there are now plenty of sedan EVs on the market, and larger EVs coming including the Soul and the env200 van. And there are lots of newswire noise of 200mi range EVs. But when I go to local markets to do my shopping, I see large/huge trucks ice that are driven around as their daily vehicle which likely has low mpg. Low mpg not only means more pollution but it is emptying out the family's income to feed the pump (BO gets the profits). Not to only profile the Latino populous, but many of the vehicle they drive a large puffy fairly new truck or suv ice. He uses them for not only work but to bring the whole family to do shopping. And I also see Mom using her large suv ice to carry the kids and all the many other items in the back she feels is needed (strollers, baby-bags, food, +lots of other junk). While Latinos may be the majority of the huge truck and suv ice drivers I see locally, they are the only ones. There is a sizable portion of drivers that like to make one vehicle have multiple uses (work, family, show-their-income-status, +more). But these are the same vehicles that can drain his business' assets each time he fills the tank. After losing my Blazer EV (in the wrong place at the wrong time), I had been rarely driving the used sedan ice I got until a I find a production EV that fits my needs (God gave me a big body). I have been driving it more recently since resolving my heart issues by routinely going to the VA hospital (20mi round-trip). But where I come to the pump, I see the poor soul that has dropped $80+ to fill their tank for the day. Whereas, I can get by on 1 gallon a week. That is a big ouch, taking a large bite out the families income. So, what is this large truck or suv ice market (what is the buyer seeking to purchase, etc.), and how have automakers approached making and selling pih versions. Automakers would have an incentive as the more pih they sell, the more ice model profits they can make. So what is it that large vehicle drivers described want from their purchase. The people I am talking to, are going by what they see their friends and neighbors driving: large puffy full sized pick-up trucks. These are not small nor light ice vehicles. All too often I see the driver's difficulty in getting out of a parking space because of its width, length, and larger turning radius. I liken their desire to have a large vehicle to wanting to have one of the biggest stallions around so they can feel like they are running with the Big Dogs. But that heavy vehicle is more than just a handful to get around in or try to park (hence why some of those drivers intentionally take two spaces so the other guy does not dig their doors, etc.). Those large vehicle designs were originally designed for heavy work loads where efficiency was not a top priority. Even though their drivers may not actually use these large heavy vehicles to their fullest capabilities, they like them and want them. What I see is these vehicles are not for hauling rocks, bricks or other items that scratch of ding up their vehicles. But light bulky items: bags of landscape trimmings, furniture/take-away junk, light loads of lumber, etc. These vehicles are not being used in this area that much by the aforementioned group to haul boats, or other tow items. So, my thinking is what is automakers made a model that looked as large and threatening, but was lighter and more efficient. The vehicle would still have the cargo carrying capacity to carry the (above) lighter items, but may not be optimal for carrying rocks or towing a 5-wheel RV. Next, to make the mpge go up, I am not talk a hybrid, but a plug-in-hybrid (pih) design to where the driver can plug in and get some of their miles as electric. To ease the price of these large pih, perhaps different pack capacity options could be offered. Personally, the prius pih with only a 11mi range seems ridiculous as most people in this area drive at least 40 miles a day. But perhaps as transitioning vehicle, because of the lower cost of a smaller pack might entice 1st time large vehicle buyers to choose a pih. Later, after they see that they save a lot of money by not using their ice as much, their next purchase might be with a larger pack. Another point is buyers of these puffy large vehicles usually are not apt renters, but own or rent a house. So, charging off their own electricity would be possible. But like other pih buyers, keeping the EVSE purchase and installation cost down would be important. Much has changed since the 1st days of selling production plugins. Now buyers can get a pih and buy a portable 3kW EVSE separately for ~$400: http://www.myelectriccarforums.com/clippercreek-launches-a-level-2-evse-that-costs-less-than-400/ These can operate just fine of existing dryer outlets found in the garage. Or installing a 6-20 outlet is not that costly. This goes back to what size pack will recharge overnight using a 3kW EVSE. And as we know, the 24kW Leaf pack will do that just fine. While it is true that the Volt has a pack half that size, the extra power demand from a large vehicle's inefficiencies will need a larger pack for the same Volt range (~30mi). Thus the cheaper pack option would be same as the Volts (~12kW), and a more costly pack option for a longer e-range would be a 24kW pack. While the pih truck or suv would have a j1772 port, in the beginning new pih truck or suv driver may not use public EVSE at first. But if the vehicle's design fit in a standard EV space (not too wide or long), they give it try later. Another option to keep the costs down, would be offer a choice of what size ice. In the news-items I listed below in mentioned a large V8. When perhaps a smaller V6 ice would work fine for their driving needs. But a V8 ice option should be available if the buyer wants to show-off that their vehicle has more hp (something that is well established as a need in their minds when really it is likely not that necessary and waste$). In the beginning, a serial pih design (unlike the Prius) would be cheaper to produce. But once that pih truck & suv market is developed, a parallel pih design would be more efficient, though likely offered on higher cost pih models. Listed below are items I have found. A couple mention VIA's attempts but the price of those pih are just too high. Instead of VIA, a major automakers needs to step up and offer this. At first it make be business fleets that are the first buyers once the vehicle if offered. Later, there needs to be a serious ad campaign to the buyers of those large vehicle (in Spanish on Latin media channels as well). I feel this has not been done, and automakers should embrace this, as they would have an untapped pih market to satisfy their CARB credit requirements. At this point at the beginning of attempting to transition buyers in this market to a truck or suv EV would likely be too expensive for them to consider, and many of them still think if it does not have an ice it is not a 'real' vehicle to drive. So, I do not feel there is a need for a large truck or suv EV discussion targeting that market at this time. I am mainly talking about pih because it would be the easiest at this time for those large truck or suv buyers to get their head-around. -Your corrections, comment, ideas requested [dated] http://evobsession.com/dream-on-the-chevy-watt-plug-in-hybrid-pickup/ Dream On: The Chevy Watt Plug-In Hybrid Pickup June 27th, 2014 http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/06/plug-in-hybrid-trucks-from-via-motors-vtrux-and-alt-e-technologies-promise-big-fuel-savings/index.htm Plug-in hybrid trucks promise big fuel savings We get behind the wheels of Via Motors VTrux and Alt-e Technologies one-ton truck June 09, 2014 http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/phev/ChryslerRamJanuary2014All.pdf Chrysler RAM PHEV Fleet - Phase 2 Feb 5, 2014 - Chrysler RAM PHEV Fleet - Phase 2. All Fleets. Number of vehicles: 23. Date range of data received: 1/1/2014 to 1/31/2014 ... ... http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/07/f17/arravt067_vss_bazzi_2014_o.pdf Phase I/II - U.S. Department of Energy – Ram 1500 PHEV June 20, 2014 ... Project Start Date: September 2009 Project End Date: December 2014 http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/10/via-motors-vtrux-plug-in-hybrid-trucks-coming-soon/index.htm Plug-in hybrid trucks coming soon All the juice you need for the job-site, plus 40-mile electric range October 10, 2013 http://www.allpar.com/model/ram/electric-PHEV.html Electric Ram history: 2002-2008 [Apr 23, 2012] http://www.autotrader.com/research/article/car-news/117314/hybrid-trucks-on-the-way.jsp Hybrid Trucks On the Way Nick Chambers [2011/08/08] [image http://images.autotrader.com/cms/content/articles/news/2011/08-aug/117314.jpg (Ram 1500 PHEV) ] ... While it might seem that an electric pickup would fall prey to many sacrifices that could reduce its usefulness, the RAM 1500 plug-in hybrids aren't toned down - in fact they offer some extended functionality that the conventional versions don't. The base of the Ram 1500 PHEV's powertrain is a 5.7-liter HEMI V8 coupled to a hybrid transmission. For improved fuel economy, the vehicle can shut down up to four cylinders at highway speeds and disconnect the front axle of the four-wheel-drive transmission when not in use. An electric motor connected to a 12.9 kilowatt-hour battery pack located underneath the rear bench provides the ability to drive as an all-electric pickup truck for a relatively short distance, at which point the vehicle will turn into a conventional hybrid. The extended functionality comes in the form of a 240-volt, 30-amp outlet and a 120-volt, 20-amp outlet, both located in the rear box. The vehicle has the ability to provide up to 6.6 kilowatts of power, which means that even a heavy duty table saw with a 240 volt connection could be run in the field from the battery of the truck without any extra modification. Although Chrysler isn't giving out any specifics on how much their Ram 1500 PHEV's could improve fuel economy just yet, ALTe, a startup based in Michigan that has developed a PHEV powertrain that can be installed in existing Ford F150s, thinks the impact could be significant. ALTe says their technology can increase the fuel economy of an F150 by as much as 200 percent - meaning that if an existing V8 F150 returns an average of 13-14 mpg, a converted one could return as much as 39-42 mpg. The company claims that adding their conversion kit results in no loss to cargo capacity, horsepower or towing capability compared with the original V8 engine. ALTe's plug-in hybrid system differs from Chrysler's in that the engine in the F150s is not connected to the wheels in any way. Instead, in a configuration known as a serial hybrid, an efficient four-cylinder engine runs a generator that provides power to a 20 kilowatt-hour battery pack. The battery itself stores enough energy from a wall outlet for the vehicle to drive up to 30 miles on a full charge before the engine needs to turn on to extend the range another 270 miles ... 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