look up "Solar Taxi" ~50% of energy comes from trailer, rest from grid tied ground mount., but it made 50,000km
https://www.google.com/search?q=solar+taxi&biw=2316&bih=1481&tbm=isch&imgil=WXU9Cw3yxsWuSM%253A%253BnQGIS1wEzAiERM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fpuregreencars.com%25252FGreen-Culture%25252FAround-the-World-with-Solar-Taxi.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=WXU9Cw3yxsWuSM%253A%252CnQGIS1wEzAiERM%252C_&usg=__Zg66p-MXwk1bPHx1rFX3wubC-2I%3D&dpr=1&ved=0CDwQyjc&ei=ji0ZVY6QNMOeggT_poDgAw#imgrc=WXU9Cw3yxsWuSM%253A%3BnQGIS1wEzAiERM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fpuregreencars.com%252Ffiles%252FSolar-taxi.JPG%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fpuregreencars.com%252FGreen-Culture%252FAround-the-World-with-Solar-Taxi.html%3B540%3B319 -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 3/29/15, Michael Ross via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: Subject: Re: [EVDL] ENERDEL Battery Experiences To: "Jeff Major" <jff_...@yahoo.com>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: Sunday, March 29, 2015, 11:58 PM I wonder why their website is so skimpy, given they seem to be legit. Do they actually make the cells in the US, or just assemble the packs? I downloaded the spec sheet. http://www.enerdel.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Cell-Binder.pdf What I see in terms of cycle life is not instructive. The product page says: " - Durability and low self-discharge; retains greater than 85% of initial capacity after more than 3,000 cycles at 100% DOD and 30°C " They cut off charging at 4.1V and call that 100% SOC. They say the nominal voltage is 3.6V. This sounds like a LiFePO4 voltage. But, it is a guess - they don't reveal it. LFP is particularly vulnerable to deterioration at lower temperatures than other cell chemistries. At 35°C (104°F) LFP starts to have accelerating deterioration. It would be interesting to see how close to the 45°C line that they do show is to the 35°C line that they don't show. The best of all information would be a family of curves that illustrates the region where deterioration accelerates. The graph on the spec sheet shows a 30°C curve that has only ~75% of capacity at 3000 cycles, not 85%. So I am confused about that information. I am going to digress to my pet topic here, cell testing: They have a C/2 charge and discharge rate. So the cycles are 1 hour start to finish. They don't indicate a dwell time at the max SOC. So they take it up and immediately bring it back down. Also the test equipment must be capable of sensing the decrease in capacity very precisely. Not many people have this equipment, yet. If understand why HOC is better and we push for it , then eventually it will supplant what is used now. The video I keep linking to- Dr. Dahn discuss es this in some detail. If high precision coulometry (HPC) is used, then you have better chance of knowing about the cells true durability in service. WIth HPC y ou can have far few er cycles and detect damage if you just hold at the fully charged state and temperature - nothing much else matters . But , if the idea is to show lots of cycles, not actually evaluate how NOT to operate the cells, then you run cycles like they have ( and most everyone else in the business). I am not say they are bad guys, but pointing out the problem with the bad old ways of testing cells. The problem that kills Li ion cells is the fully charged state a coinciding with higher temperature. The mechanism of damage is achieving a reaction activation energy when the cell is fully charged. Below that temperature there is far less of a problem. To evaluate the cell quality of design and manufacture you actually need to see at what conditions the cells deteriorate. You could take the same physical cells and use different electrolyte packages, test them with 1 hour cycles and see no difference, but with HPC and long dwell times you could tell which combination is better. This is where the industry need to go. Mike On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 10:31 PM, Jeff Major via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > Hello EVDL, > > EnerDel makes a great cell and battery here in the USA. I have been to > their factory in the Indianapolis area many times. I use the product just > about every day. I can write more but want to see if this message makes to > thru to the board. > Regards, > Jeff Major > > > > On Sunday, March 29, 2015 9:09 PM, HARSHA GODAVARI via EV < > ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > > Their contact info shows their location as,"Greenfield .Ind" May be > someone in the vicinity can pay them a visit. > > regards > hg > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Michael Ross via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> > To: "Mike" <mska...@cox.net>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" < > ev@lists.evdl.org> > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 12:09:01 AM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] ENERDEL Battery Experiences > > Mike, > > Caveat emptor. > > A US company, but I can't see any information on the website that tells me > they have a good cell, modules or packs. It is rather uninformative. I > can't tell if they are more than an outlet for a non-US company. > > To me the most important thing to know is what they cells are made of, and > have they had useful life testing; which is to say high precision > coulometry. WIthout that knowledge there I very little about the life spec > that is comforting. This will be hard to get from any manufacturer because > it is new. But the usual life testing is very weak. If you find out more > about the actual chemistry then you could look into that. Kick it around > on thes forum. > > They say nothing about their US facilities. If I had to guess they are > made overseas and branded ENRDEL. I would want to know more about that > manufacturing. > > They do not cite a single customer application. They talk about how they > could do these applications, but don't identify any actual uses. > > There is only one actual photograph of a cell, module, pack, or BMS. All > CAD renderings - not a good sign. > http://www.enerdel.com/se175-384-a-secure/ > shows a completly generif metal box with lifting eyes. Not even and > ENERDAL log. > > Call me suspicious. > > They might be an outlet for a perfectly competent Chinese manufacturer, or > who knows what. > > Maybe you can get them to show you the beef. Maybe some testimonials? A > happy customer you can call? > > > Mike Ross > > > > On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Mike via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > > I am in the process of deciding what type of Lithium batteries to use. > > Been through all the retoric on CALB, etc. Read the used Nissan battery > > threads and am leaning toward ENERDEL batteries for two reasons,, (1) > They > > are a US company and (2) the discharge curve seems to be a steady > declining > > ramp with a ‘soft’ end point. EVOLVE Electrics is also very helpful. I am > > well aware the company had a rough few years but it looks like they have > > recovered. Looking for a 144 volt nominal/168V max system and 200 AHrs. > > So…does anyone have any solid experience using ENERDEL batteries? > > _______________________________________________ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > > > -- > To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. > Thomas A. Edison > <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> > > A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. > *Warren Buffet* > > Michael E. Ross > (919) 585-6737 Land > (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google > Phone > (919) 631-1451 Cell > > michael.e.r...@gmail.com > <michael.e.r...@gmail.com> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150329/30d16df2/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150329/46f9f3c4/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150330/1cfa726c/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com <michael.e.r...@gmail.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150329/74c22524/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
