Very interesting.
So you're saying that there are tons of gasoline-powered assisted bikes in 
China, and that these are what's being replaced, not non-assisted bikes.

I've never been to China, so I really don't know. I appreciate the information.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 24, 2015, at 1:22 AM, Jukka Järvinen <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> When the comparison is done fair we should look what the electric bike 
> replaces. We should not compare unaided bicycles to electrically assisted 
> ones. 
> 
> In China many electric bicycles are much sturdier than ones without electric 
> assistance. So one can zip away on the streets with the bike and 3 other 
> family members on it. While this is getting rarer sight in China as many are 
> switching to cars or small three wheeled EVs this still is quite common. 
> Things are changing as they have money for cars. People use electric assisted 
> bicycles in there also because they wish to get around without being in need 
> to change the clothes couple times a day. It get's hot and humidity is high. 
> In this case electric bicycle replaces gasoline scooter/motorcycle which also 
> stink and the smell is on the clothes for the rest of the day.
> 
> Usually pedals are on those 'bicycles' only for the situation if the battery 
> dies. Depleted or just completely dies.
> 
> Average food delivery person with bicycle would not be an average Joe or 
> Jane. It takes commitment to the sport. In NYC there are bicycle lanes 
> (right?). So taking scooter/motorcycle there would be illegal. Assisted 
> bicycles are allowed on those lanes (usually) and one can get pretty quickly 
> from point A to B. A hybrid solution which has good things from bicycles and 
> scooters.
> 
> China has taken leaps towards cleaner transportation and CO2 free electricity 
> generation. Not saying anyone else would not be doing the same but in China 
> case they are trying to avoid mistakes we have done in the past and are going 
> to leave some things undone. This is why I stated what I did. EVs are a 
> standard in China traffic already. More miles are driven in many places with 
> electric bicycles/scooters/etc than with gasoline cars/scooters/motorcycles. 
> They are getting to the broader end of the hockey stick far faster than us.
> 
> -Jukka
>  
> 
> 2015-08-23 3:35 GMT+03:00 Mark Abramowitz via EV <[email protected]>:
>> Aren't EV miles *dirtier* for bikes? Don't they mostly use unassisted bikes?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Aug 22, 2015, at 4:10 PM, Jukka Järvinen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > I bet this guy did not even know he was doing something wrong. As this is 
>> > standard procedure on many Chinese cities. :D Most get away without a 
>> > single scratch as everyone knows bicycles are everywhere. Which is exactly 
>> > the opposite situation in most US cities. Right?
>> >
>> > The thing to observe here could be how Chinese drive billions of electric 
>> > miles every day. Now that's something to talk about!
>> >
>> > BR,
>> > Jukka
>> >
>> > 22.8.2015 22.19 "Mark Abramowitz via EV" <[email protected]> kirjoitti:
>> >> Not sure what this has to do with EVs, unless you're implying that the 
>> >> electrification of his bike had something to do with his lunacy.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> > On Aug 22, 2015, at 12:59 AM, brucedp5 via EV <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/man-bike-traffic-holland-tunnel-article-1.2326089
>> >> > Deliveryman on electric bike arrested after heading into Holland Tunnel
>> >> > against traffic
>> >> > BY Thomas Tracy  /  August 14, 2015
>> >> >
>> >> > [images  / Port Authority Police Department
>> >> > http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2326088.1439577248!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_400/tunnel15n-2-web.jpg
>> >> > (mugshot) Yongshun Bu, 44, was arrested by the Port Authority Police 
>> >> > when he
>> >> > rode an electric scooter into the westbound Holland Tunnel, weaving 
>> >> > against
>> >> > traffic
>> >> >
>> >> > http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2326087.1439577247!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/tunnel15n-1-web.jpg
>> >> > Bu was riding this electric bike through the tunnel, going against 
>> >> > traffic.
>> >> > He was making an early morning food delivery, according to law 
>> >> > enforcement
>> >> > sources.
>> >> > ]
>> >> >
>> >> > This was a wheely bad idea.
>> >> >
>> >> > A deliveryman on an electric bicycle was arrested after he zipped into 
>> >> > the
>> >> > Holland Tunnel against traffic and veered around oncoming cars as he 
>> >> > made
>> >> > his way across the Hudson River span, officials said Friday.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yongshun Bu, 44, and his motorized bike entered the westbound lane at 
>> >> > the
>> >> > Manhattan end of the tunnel at 7 p.m. Thursday and was seen recklessly
>> >> > riding around traffic, ignoring signs and verbal instructions to pull 
>> >> > over,
>> >> > according to Port Authority spokesman Joe Pentangelo.
>> >> >
>> >> > Bu, who was delivering Chinese food according to law enforcement 
>> >> > sources,
>> >> > was ultimately grabbed about 20 yards into the tunnel and charged with
>> >> > criminal trespass.
>> >> >
>> >> > His wrong-way trip through the tunnel caused a short traffic disruption,
>> >> > but no one was hurt, officials said.
>> >> > [© 2015 NYDailyNews.com]
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Food-Delivery-Cyclist-Rushes-Wrong-Way-Through-Holland-Tunnel-Cops-321972742.html
>> >> > Food Delivery Cyclist Rushes Wrong Way Through Holland Tunnel: Cops
>> >> > Aug 15, 2015
>> >> >
>> >> > [image
>> >> > http://media.nbcnewyork.com/images/676*367/81515tunnel.jpg
>> >> > (mugshot)
>> >> > ]
>> >> >
>> >> > A restaurant delivery person apparently disappointed hungry customers 
>> >> > after
>> >> > being arrested by police who said he was weaving through oncoming 
>> >> > traffic in
>> >> > the wrong lane of the Holland Tunnel.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yongshun Bu, 44, recklessly dodged oncoming traffic, ignored signs and
>> >> > verbal instructions to stop while making a food delivery Friday evening 
>> >> > on
>> >> > an electric-powered bicycle, Port Authority police said Saturday.
>> >> >
>> >> > Bu was apprehended at the tunnel exit and charged with criminal 
>> >> > trespass,
>> >> > police said.
>> >> >
>> >> > There was no information as to whether Bu had obtained a lawyer who 
>> >> > could
>> >> > comment on the charge.
>> >> > [© nydailynews.com]
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > http://cliffviewpilot.com/manhattan-deliveryman-caught-riding-electric-bicycle-through-holland-tunnel/
>> >> > Manhattan deliveryman caught riding electric bicycle through Holland 
>> >> > Tunnel
>> >> > by: Jerry DeMarco  August 14, 2015
>> >> >
>> >> > BEYOND BERGEN: A lower Manhattan deliveryman rode an electric bicycle
>> >> > through the Holland Tunnel last night, skirting traffic and ignoring 
>> >> > orders
>> >> > to stop, before officers grabbed him on the New Jersey tube.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yongshun Bu, 44, was delivering food when he “recklessly” drove through 
>> >> > the
>> >> > tunnel around 7 p.m., the authority’s Joseph Pentangelo told CLIFFVIEW
>> >> > PILOT.
>> >> >
>> >> > Port Authority tunnel and bridge agents combined with PAPD officers to 
>> >> > take
>> >> > him into custody just inside the exit, he said.
>> >> >
>> >> > The tunnel was cleared and checked for safety reasons, Pentangelo said.
>> >> > [© 2015 Cliffview Pilot]
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/08/lost_deliveryman_rides_wrong-way_into_holland_tunnel_officials_say.html
>> >> > Lost deliveryman rides wrong-way into Holland Tunnel, officials say
>> >> > By Noah Cohen | August 15, 2015
>> >> >
>> >> > NEW YORK — A Chinese food deliveryman trying to bring an order to a
>> >> > Manhattan address got lost, and ended up riding his electric-powered 
>> >> > bicycle
>> >> > into oncoming traffic at the Holland Tunnel before he was arrested,
>> >> > officials and reports said Friday.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yongshun Bu, 44, piloted the bike around traffic coming from Jersey 
>> >> > City,
>> >> > ignoring signs and instructions to stop Thursday night, according to 
>> >> > Port
>> >> > Authority police spokesman Joe Pentangelo.
>> >> >
>> >> > Workers noticed the wayward biker and waved their hands to stop him, a
>> >> > source told The New York Post. Bu, however, was undeterred.
>> >> >
>> >> > Officials slowed traffic on the New Jersey side before Port Authority 
>> >> > Police
>> >> > officer Eric Brozek caught up to Bu about 100 yards into the tube, 
>> >> > according
>> >> > to the newspaper. Police deployed a dog to sniff for explosives as a
>> >> > precaution after the incident.
>> >> >
>> >> > The spokesman said Bu was charged with criminal trespass.
>> >> > [© 2015 New Jersey On-Line]
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > [dated]
>> >> > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-NYPD-busting-and-seizing-escooters-and-ebicycles-tp4676711.html
>> >> > EVLN: NYPD busting and seizing escooters and ebicycles
>> >> > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-NYPD-busting-seizing-escooters-ebicycles-tp4676717p4676718.html
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > For EVLN posts use:
>> >> > http://evdl.org/evln/
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > {brucedp.150m.com}
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > View this message in context: 
>> >> > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Bu-s-e-wheely-bad-idea-weaving-recklessly-the-wrongway-HT-delivery-tp4677238.html
>> >> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
>> >> > Nabble.com.
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> >> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> >> > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
>> >> > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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