Bill Dube' wrote: >I understand your desire to make a big bucks, high performance EV, >but Tesla has simply beat you to the punch. Tesla beat _everyone_ to the punch. >They will continue to beat everyone to the punch.
I tend to agree with everything Bill has said on this issue. The technology you manage to put together in your "niche" car won't even come close to what Tesla (and other automakers) are capable of. As far as being quicker than a Tesla, you will require similar cutting-edge four-wheel traction control and the power to drive it. A Tesla updates the feedback continuously from each wheel in a small handful of milliseconds. You will never get as close to the limits of adhesion as Tesla does without the implementation of equal/better technology. The accepted technique to getting lowest ET from a Tesla is simply to stomp the go-pedal to the floor as quickly as possible. Everything else is taken care of for you. I can just envision Elon at a company meeting hearing an engineer suggest that the Model III have only two-wheel drive. Just ain't gonna happen. Will your niche market car also have self-driving features? On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Bill Dube via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > You _think_ you aren't competing with Tesla, but you will be. Your > customers will compare the virtues of your car to the Tesla, and you must > offer something that the Tesla does not. Nothing you have said would lure a > customer towards your concept EV and away from buying a Tesla. Teslas have > insane performance, and they cost less than $120k, and they have 200+ miles > of range. > > Folks simply _must_ have range. That is why Tesla sells, because it has > _unbelievable_ range. People won't pay big bucks for an EV that doesn't > have similar range to a Tesla. (It is impossible to talk a person out of > range they can buy elsewhere at the same price.) > > Folks new to EVs think "I'll just put a bigger battery pack into the car, > and that will easily take care of aerodynamic drag problems which will cure > my range issues." It doesn't, unfortunately. A bigger pack takes more room, > which you don't have to give. You end up with a battery with a driver's > seat. > > If there a better battery technology becomes available, Tesla will offer > it as a retrofit. (The offer an upgrade on the battery pack if you bought a > Roadster, for example.) > > You think, "I'll just give up range." and offer a car that has 50 miles of > range, but stellar performance. The trouble is, your performance really > can't do much better than a Tesla, at least on ordinary pavement. Tesla is > up against the traction limit of ordinary pavement. You really can't get > much faster acceleration than 0-60 mph in 2.8 seconds on the street. Your > tires won't grip any better. > > I understand your desire to make a big bucks, high performance EV, but > Tesla has simply beat you to the punch. Tesla beat _everyone_ to the punch. > They will continue to beat everyone to the punch. > > Bill D. > > At 10:19 AM 1/14/2016, Jack Wendel wrote: > >> Bill wrote: >> >> If you are going to sell them after you build one of your own, it is >> going to be very difficult to beat the Tesla on performance, safety, and >> value/dollar. >> >> >> The assumption that I plan to compete with Tesla out of the gate is >> simply crazy. Tesla has a HUGE head start over me. If it were possible for >> me to compete either of the following would have to be true: >> >> 1) Tesla engineers are all idiots. >> 2) I am smarter than all the Tesla engineers combined. >> 3) Tesla hasn't learned a thing in all the years they have been in >> development and production. >> >> Since we can safely assume 1 and 3 are not true, thanks for the >> compliment Bill! ;^) >> >> You want a convertible, cut the top off of a Tesla. Do it very nicely and >> neatly of course, but that would be your best option. Sell that customized >> model of a Tesla, using the same business model as van conversions, stretch >> limos, and bulletproof cars use. >> >> >> That would be great if I wanted to be in the business of converting  >> cars. I don't. Someone else can do that if they want to. >>  >> One thing that you are not taking into account is that all OEM EVs are >> _very_ aerodynamic. (No exceptions.) This is directly related to range, the >> cost of the battery pack, the weight of the battery pack, and the cost of >> the car. A car with crappy range simply won't sell. Likewise, a car with a >> heavy (and expensive) battery pack to make up for a bad Cd will take a >> performance hit because of the extra weight, and won't sell either. >> >> >> Your assumptions are based on your perspective of value. Obviously >> nothing wrong with that and it's probably quite similar  to others on this >> list. No offense, but no one on this list would be a target customer of >> mine exactly for that reason. My target customers have a COMPLETELY >> different perspective of value. >>  >> ICE cars really don't have to be aerodynamic to sell well. Poor aero >> doesn't impact the purchase price, or the weight of the vehicle, and >> doesn't alter the performance appreciably. All that really changes is the >> EPA estimated mileage. The customer doesn't care mostly because he doesn't >> think that far ahead. >> >> >> Same with my target audience. All they care about is that the car is an >> "EV" and that they can  CLAIM to care about the environment. >>  >> Thus, if you want a "classic" or "sporty" or some other styling, you >> can't sacrifice aerodynamic drag to achieve it. You must carefully style >> the car to achieve the desired look, while being very very aerodynamic. Not >> easy to do, but you must to build an EV that will actually sell. To sell, >> it must have range and performance and be competitive in cost. That, in >> turn, requires that it have a low Cd. Thus, a Mustang or a Corvette won't >> work. Awful Cd. >> >> >> Again, different value system. My range will come from better battery >> technology. It's not there yet (nowhere close) but I want to have my cars >> built and tested before that happens. I cannot wait for that to happen >> before I pull the trigger on this project. >>  >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160114/cedd4907/attachment.htm > > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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