Like converting a small motorcycle? Like I suggested near the beginning
of this thread?
Over the decades that I have been involved in EVs, when folks aren't
interested in starting with a small project (and a cheap project) to
learn the basics before taking on a full-size, high-power, EV project,
it often does not end well. Everyone that is very successful in EVs
started out with a small, inexpensive, project. I can't think of any
exception. There are likely a few, but they are rare. It is an important
step in the learning process that has proved expensive to skip.
Bill Dube'
On 1/16/2016 12:53 PM, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:
Hi Jack,
I have one more bit of unsolicited advice. From the information below, you are
obviously very experienced with high performance gasoline engines. I would bet
that you worked with many other ICE projects before you tackled the 1000 hp
nitrous engine.
If you were talking to somebody that wanted to build a 650 hp super-charged
race car as a first project with gasoline engines, what would you recommend to
them? Would you recommend that they start with a smaller project that was less
performance with less things to go wrong? That is what I would recommend,
personally.
The electric drive you want to build is the equivalent of that race car motor.
Personally, I would recommend some sort of lower performance project to learn
on first. Make the mistakes with a 50-100 kW system rather than a 400-500 kW
system. Either one could cause serious damage or injury, but the high power
system can do it a lot faster.
You could probably get a conversion project from someone else for a few
thousand dollars. Take that apart and put it together. You will learn a lot.
Read through the EVDL archives. There are a lot of subtle items that don't
seem that important, but are critical. For example, fuses and contactors that
are suitable for AC may be completely inappropriate to use on a high voltage DC
system. They could be the starting point of a plasma fire if something goes
wrong.
Be careful and meticulous with all your assembly. You need to take as much
care with assembly and torquing all your electrical connections as you would be
in assembling an engine.
This is an exciting project you are tackling.
Mike
On January 15, 2016 10:11:11 AM MST, Jack Wendel via EV <[email protected]>
wrote:
Wow David, thanks for the well thought out response! I really do
appreciate
it.
First, I am NOT looking for investors.
Second, the "At least I will have my own car!" response is to shut down
the
naysayers. You can find MANY people to tell you how to build your
business
that have no experience building the business you are building. When
the
car was originally going to be an ICE car I had more people than I can
count say "You can't do what you are trying to do!". While I am not
done
with the car, the 75% I have done has already proven them wrong.
The business of building and selling my car is not in question, the
only
thing in question is whether or not it will be an EV.
If I believed I had to out Tesla Tesla, I never would have started this
project. If that were true Tesla would have put ALL other cars out of
business.
Setting the goal of outperforming Tesla out of the gate would be like
running before I ever learn to walk. Again, the prototype is simply a
"Proof of Concept". Since this is all self-financed, co$t HAS to be a
major
concern. Wasting money on an AC system at this stage would be fiscally
irresponsible.
WHY am I not looking for investors?
1) They are offering less than 10% of the projected value of my
business
for a majority share. I'm not selling my drear for less that 1/10th of
what
it is worth.
2) If I have investors I'd just be working for someone else. No thanks,
I'll keep my day job of working for someone else.
3) All investors care about is scaling the business as quickly as
possible.
That's the BEST way I know to run out of ca$h and drive the business
under
before it ever gets started.
4) My business model is low volume production. High volume isn't even
on
the radar. I can do what I want to do with my business out of my 30' x
30'
garage.
5) IF my business takes off I will scale up. But only when, and if,
sales
greatly exceed capacity. Every additional expense added to the business
to
scale will REQUIRE increasing the scale just to break even. Overhead is
the
one expense I need to avoid to ensure success at low volume.
6) Scaling actually HURTS my business with my target market. For them,
Teslas have lost their appeal because they are "Too affordable and too
common". My goal is to avoid that "trap".
7) Too many business owners that have brought investors in have
eventually
been run out of their own business by the investors. I'm not willing to
take that risk. So if "Staying small" is the result of keeping my
business
100% my own, so be it. I prefer that to working for someone else.
BTW, contrary to common belief, Elon Musk did NOT invent the Tesla.
From
what I have read he simply invested and eventually ran the real
inventor
(oor at least one of them) out of the business. I did my research on
investors and their mindset. They feel it is their right to run you out
of
the business because their money, not your idea or work, is the reason
your
business was a success.
When I went to the business advisers, my business plan was to build an
ICE
car, NOT an EV because I had ruled that out due to the added co$t and
risk.They are the ones that convinced me to go the EV route.
This is not my first car to build nor is it my first business. I have
learned from what I have done in the past and that dictates my route
going
forward. The only unknown in this business is the EV part. If I can't
get
sufficient help and support there, I am willing to be "Just another ICE
Supercar".
Once I build the prototype I will need publicity to attract the "right"
customer. I do not personally know any "People with more money than
sense".
Well maybe some that have little of either! ;^)
My "Marketing Plan" is to build a drag racing EV that is disguised as a
"Supercar". I will put down some impressive performance numbers
following
the NEDRA model. I have already talked to John Metric and priced out
the EV
drivetrain long ago, I just need to "Pull the trigger" on that order.
So I
will be following the path of Zombie 222 but targeting a different
customer
with a different product.
If you haven't, go to the Zombie 222 site. They have expanded from the
"EV
DC Motor Drag Race Musclecar" into "We will build whatever you want, AC
or
DC". But their DC Drag Car got them the initial publicity they needed.
Then
they expanded to set speed records as well (Texas Mile) and gained even
more exposure. Besides, my "Marketing Plan" will also be fun! 8^)
BTW, this prototype only represents my first and second car. The car
that
will actually allow my business to be successful will be my third car.
It
will be a COMPLETELY different design and will leverage what I learned
to
date and set my "market niche". Again, something I learned AFTER I
already
had too much time and money invested in this prototype. It makes more
sense
to do the final 25% on my current car than to scrap it and start all
over
>from ground zero.
Finally, this business is simply a platform so that I can continue
designing, building and racing cars. I current own a ICE drag car that
has
produces 1000 horsepower on the engine alone and another 600 horsepower
on
nitrous oxide (two stages, 300 horsepower each). If I could, I would
simply
drop that engine in my prototype and be done with it. But the fuel
consumption could almost be measured in gallons per mile instead of
miles
per gallon.
Oh yeah... with that in mind, I view this prototype and its successor
as
"throw away cars used as learning tools". IF they become very
successful I
MIGHT change my mind. But, even so, the REAL success of my business
will be
based on my third car. And $150k won't even come close to buying one of
those. Again, this realization didn't even come to me until I had a new
vision of my "target customer" inspired by both the business advisers
and
someone that used to build custom exotic cars. The latter actually told
me
my entire business was misguided and, at best, would only be moderately
successful but not unbelievably successful. And he was right because
he
learned it from the hindsight that can only come from first hand
experience! . (See, I DO listen to advice!) ;^)
Again, thanks for your input. All of your points are completely valid
IF I
was going the route you describe.
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