I think that it’s only a matter of time. The limiting factor is probably getting all the non autonomous vehicles off the road or requiring them to add transponders so the autonomous cars can be on the lookout for them. The Tesla t-boning the semi is nothing new, if you google about a bit you will find lots of cars under semi trailers that did not have any computer controlled autonomous functions. Some because the human driver decided to try to autonomously drive under them, some for who knows what reason. Accidents happen and we learn from them. The airline industry studies each crash and then updates safety procedures and issues mandatory updates, inspections and repairs as needed why not cars too (cost maybe?)
Heres one where the semi-trailer was parked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDN-MrptYUc <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDN-MrptYUc> Lawrence > On Jul 26, 2016, at 15:48, Peter C. Thompson via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > > While Peri does have a point, it is extremely pessimistic to say that we will > never get to the "good enough" stage. > > There are some very talented software engineers working on this problem. > Working in a similar fashion to coding for the space program. When you have > enough talented engineers working on a difficult problem, with enough > latitude to fix what needs fixing, you will get the problem solved to the > "good enough" stage. Nothing will ever be perfect, and to try to aim for > perfect on the first try is to doom your product to failure - because you > will never reach the market. > > As an example, remember when Apple tried to outdo Google with their own map > program? Sure, it failed, and in very public ways. However, compare now - > they are quite close in reliability. Voice recognition is another area that > has rapidly improved - when was the last time Siri didn't understand you? > > There is an engineering axiom: "Don't let Perfect be the enemy of the Good". > This is nothing new - Confucius said something similar a long time ago. > > There's another old saying: "Never say never." :) > > Cheers, Peter > > > On 7/26/16 3:32 PM, damon henry via EV wrote: >> I still say that the majority of American drivers who think they will never >> trust an autonomous vehicle will change their minds as soon as the insurance >> companies offer them $5 less a month on their auto insurance :) >> Damon >> >>> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 20:15:04 +0000 >>> To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a >>> driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform >>> From: [email protected] >>> >>> The thing is Peri, >>> There are so many possibilities while driving how can one ever test >>> software enough to know >>> that you have covered every likely possibility. Even so, when there is a >>> crash and I am sitting >>> in the backseat letting the vehicle drive who is responsible for the >>> damage, injuries or possible death? >>> Tesla leaves the responsibility on the driver and I'm not sure it will ever >>> move away from that model. >>> >>> >>> From: Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> >>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:09 PM >>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a >>> driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform >>> I think the big issue will be dealing with the nature of the crashes. >>> While we have plenty of accidents and fatalities with human drivers >>> today, most of the time those humans mitigate the accident by reacting >>> and doing something. That probably helps, even if the result includes a >>> fatality (but some survivors). Putting statistics aside for a moment, >>> consider that you are "helpless" in an autonomous car crash. >>> >>> With autonomous vehicles, I see most failures as being catastrophic. >>> That is, the software will be completely unaware there is a pending >>> crash. Of course, it depends on the details of the situation. >>> Regardless, I think - if enough autonomous car deaths occur - people >>> will fear the prospect of a catastrophic crash more than they fear being >>> involved in a mitigated human-controlled crash. >>> >>> In other words, if you are a safe, alert driver, will you be >>> statistically more likely to die in an autonomous car crash then in one >>> where you are in control - or vice versa? Overall, I'm quite certain the >>> statistics will point to the autonomous car being safer. But maybe not >>> for a small percentage of truly careful drivers. >>> >>> Peri >>> >>> ------ Original Message ------ >>> From: "Cor van de Water via EV" <[email protected]> >>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: 26-Jul-16 10:57:17 AM >>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a >>> driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform >>> >>>> Hi Paul, >>>> No problem - you are free to disagree. >>>> I predict that within 10 years nobody wants to deal with all those >>>> distracted drivers who are trying to drive while also staying in >>>> contact with their family, answering customers and colleagues and >>>> keeping their Facebook status updated. (Almost) everyone will gladly >>>> give the challenges of navigating the road to the self-driving car in >>>> the same way that you hire a driver today to bring you without the >>>> stress and fatigue of driving yourself. >>>> Indeed, there will be accidents and fatalities. But face it - today >>>> there are plenty of those as well without the machines, simply because >>>> humans take a risk. Yesterday I almost crashed because someone decided >>>> that they should try to cross the street coming from behind a van >>>> blocking the view of oncoming traffic. >>>> >>>> Blinded by glaring sunlight? Indeed a cause of many crashes today. >>>> Totally preventable with good sensors. Radar is not bothered by >>>> sunlight. >>>> >>>> I think Tesla and others are onto something good when they see that >>>> long distance transportation and taxi services are where a lot of money >>>> can be found, though I suspect that a long-distance truck will still >>>> have one human on board (compared to two today, where they drive >>>> alternatingly today to keep the vehicle on the road as much as >>>> possible). In future the truck will drive itself while lumbering along >>>> on the freeway while the human sleeps/rests. At source and destination >>>> as well as at (recharge) stops, the human will take over and drive the >>>> truck and do all that is necessary to load/unload. >>>> >>>> But hey, I have been wrong before so, as always: time will tell. >>>> >>>> The fact that many dozens of Google self-driving cars are already on >>>> the road and without much problems, tells me which direction we are >>>> headed. >>>> >>>> Cor van de Water >>>> Chief Scientist >>>> Proxim Wireless >>>> >>>> office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water >>>> XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info >>>> >>>> http://www.proxim.com >>>> >>>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential >>>> and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you >>>> received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. >>>> Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part >>>> of this message is prohibited. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of paul dove via >>>> EV >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 7:03 AM >>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launchas >>>> adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform >>>> >>>> Cor, >>>> I disagree completely. It is likely we will never have self driving >>>> vehicles on the freeway or in any other venue.Personally I think this >>>> is an exercise doomed to failure. The road is a complicated place and >>>> cannot be compared toair flight where few obstacles are encountered. >>>> This is evidenced by the Tesla that drove under the Semi. >>>> One day I was driving and the vehicle in front of me swerved because of >>>> an obstacle in the roadway and of courseI ran over it. It was a piece >>>> of tire from a Semi which flipped up and tore a gash in my drivers >>>> door. How are >>>> sensors going to detect things like that? Or lets say there's a sudden >>>> downpour, or you crest a hill and there's blindingsunlight I believe >>>> that many will attempt this and it will end in failure. It's one this t >>>> insure individuals it's a wholenew thing to insure software..... after >>>> all if the cars driving then the cars at fault....... who pays? >>>> >>>> From: Cor van de Water via EV <[email protected]> >>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:57 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as >>>> adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform >>>> >>>> Paul, >>>> >>>> The reason they only go 25 MPH is simply that Google wanted a car fast >>>> and so had to choose to classify them as NEV. Any other 4-wheeled >>>> vehicle would have needed crash testing which is not only expensive and >>>> difficult but also a lengthy process. It makes no sense if you are just >>>> creating a testing platform with a few hundred vehicles. >>>> Of course 25 MPH helps in getting slightly longer reaction times due to >>>> low speed, but that is not a concern for Google, they wanted experience >>>> with a self-driving platform in daily traffic situations and that is >>>> what they are getting, never mind that these vehicles can't go on the >>>> freeway - the freeway is not a very interesting place for a >>>> self-driving >>>> vehicle. >>>> >>>> Cars being for sale or not has no bearing on the concerns from the >>>> posters stating that they do not want to be around self-driving cars, >>>> well in downtown Mountain View you can't avoid that... >>>> >>>> Cor van de Water >>>> Chief Scientist >>>> Proxim Wireless >>>> >>>> office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water >>>> XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info >>>> >>>> http://www.proxim.com >>>> >>>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential >>>> and >>>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you >>>> received >>>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any >>>> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of >>>> this message is prohibited. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of paul dove via >>>> EV >>>> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 2:39 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as >>>> adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform >>>> >>>> While technically Google cars can drive around they only travel a max >>>> speed of 25mph. They are intended as couriers and they aren't for sale >>>> as far as I know. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/bf026593/attachment.htm> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/8813642d/attachment.htm> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/3be2c374/attachment.htm> >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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