Personally for large grid scales, I like gravity based storage, which
can use moving train cars on sloped tracks, or tower cranes that lift
and then drop large concrete blocks (building and unbuilding towers of
blocks to store/recover energy).
You can also use pumped water storage into man-made reservaurs, which
basically just creates a new pond/lake in a high area that did not have
any existing water flow, so there is minimal ecological changes (makes
more wetlands if anything...)
Jay
On 6/27/19 11:15 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
Electrolysis has thermodynamic limits to efficiency, but making H2 and O2
are a good way to store, large scale, renewable energy for which no other
means are as environmentally sound.
We don't want to dam up any water courses if that is possible, so more pump
storage is to be avoided. It would be nice not to resort to nukes. The
materials needed to store energy using batteries on a large utility scale
are prohibitive, plus these materials are very helpful for transportation
applications. We could store off peak renewable energy production in large
tanks and combust them when peak demand hits. The cost of enormous tanks is
far less compared to batteries on the same enormous scale. This is cleaner
too than dealing with spent batteries.
I don't like H2 for mobile applications. Batteries keep getting better.
On Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 10:41 AM Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:
The author claims the only real advantage to fuel cells is the fueling
time. And that was two years ago. It's even less of an advantage now and
the trend is continuing.
The only other argument I can see would be the efficiency of the overall
system, including generating hydrogen. The generation part is the loser.
As far as I know, there are only two ways to generate large amounts of
hydrogen: electrolysis or breaking down hydrocarbon molecules.
Electrolysis is about 50% efficient, I think. Hydrocarbon generally
depends on natural gas, and I think we're going to see an enormous push
back on fracking as more health and environmental issues manifest.
Maybe Toyota got a lot of grant money from Calif. ?
Peri
------ Original Message ------
From: "Bill Dube via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Bill Dube" <billd...@killacycle.com>
Sent: 26-Jun-19 6:43:27 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Excellent article (was: Lets discourage hydrogen
advocates. )
Very well researched article on H2 fuel cells versus EV's.
The article expertly covers the "what" but doesn't mention the "why" of
Toyota and H2.
I really would like to know what motivates Toyota to keep pushing H2
passenger cars.
Bill D.
On 6/27/2019 9:57 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
https://electrek.co/2017/10/26/toyota-elon-musk-fuel-cell-hydrogen/
This was a story saying Toyota thought Elon Musk was right but they were
going to make Fool cells anyway. Lawrence Rhodes
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