For the time being, I agree that biofuels are a better transition fuel
than H2.
However, they aren't really carbon neutral unless the source for the
biofuel is currently being used as fuel. For example, we bury in
landfills huge amounts of plastic waste and other carbon-containing
materials. Those are currently "capturing" some percentage of their
carbon. If we start converting them to biofuels, none is being captured.
On the other hand, the manner in which many waste products are currently
used for energy creates toxins in the air and water. If we can safely
convert them to biofuels instead, that would be an improvement.
Longer term, anything we convert to biofuels could be turned into virgin
plastic and other useful materials rather than be used for energy. We
could, then, produce plastics and other materials from biofuels instead
of fracked natural gas.
Peri
<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
------ Original Message ------
From: "(-Phil-)" <[email protected]>
To: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List" <[email protected]>
Sent: 08-May-21 10:10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] opinion article on hydrogen
From what research I've done, I believe BioFuels are a better stop gap
than H2.
H2 is a boondoggle. I just can't find a use case that makes sense,
it's poor systemic efficiency, and super-high infrastructure cost take
it out of consideration.
We'll still need some kind of energy dense solution for things like air
travel. Biofuels can at least be carbon neutral, as you can close the
carbon cycle. It will take a long way to get there of course, as the
complete biofuel production cycle is also still a carbon intensive
operation, but this can be fixed over time.
To get to electrification quicker, I still think some hybridization is
good. I'm part of this project: https://youtu.be/TuLE7CcSvRc
It is a good way to get more electric cars on the road faster. The
lower cost and battery size mean more cars in the fleet faster, and the
same battery supply that can build one Tesla Model 3 or Y can now build
more than 4 cars instead of just one. Unlike H2, this can be
implemented now, and can allow biofuels to be phased in without any new
tech on the car or distribution infrastructure side. Also removes the
immediate requirement to build more fast charging infrastructure while
still allowing long distance travel.
On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 6:09 AM Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]>
wrote:
Resending... didn't go through.
<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
------ Original Message ------
From: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: 07-May-21 6:27:44 PM
Subject: opinion article on hydrogen
>This article claims that producing hydrogen will remain too expensive
and therefore people will continue to choose to use natural gas if
there isn't an electric alternative. It also mentions the poor
efficiency of producing it.
>
>Using hydrogen fuel risks locking in reliance on fossil fuels,
researchers warn
>https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/06/hydrogen-fuel-risks-reliance-on-fossil-fuels
>
>...
>Fuels produced from hydrogen can be used as straight replacements for
oil and gas and can be low-carbon, if renewable electricity is used to
produce these “e-fuels”. However, the research found that using the
electricity directly to power cars and warm houses was far more
efficient.
>...
>The analysis estimated that hydrogen-based fuels would be very
expensive and scarce in the coming decade. Therefore, equipment such
as “hydrogen-ready” boilers could end up reliant on fossil gas and
continue to produce the carbon emissions driving global heating.
>...
>The research, published in the journal Nature Climate Change,
calculated that producing and burning hydrogen-based fuels in home gas
boilers required six to 14 times more electricity than heat pumps
providing the same warmth. This is because energy is wasted in
creating the hydrogen, then the e-fuel, then in burning it. For cars,
using e-fuels requires five times more electricity than is needed than
for battery-powered cars.
>...
>Daryl Wilson, the executive director of the global, industry-backed
Hydrogen Council, said hydrogen could become the most competitive
low-carbon solution for some sectors by 2030, such as long-haul
trucking and steel.
>...
>
>-----------
>
>Peri
>
><< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
_______________________________________________
Address messages to [email protected]
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/
LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210508/bb4b6e4d/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Address messages to [email protected]
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/
LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
