Well then he’s wrong about solar panels. I went to a talk years back by Steven Chu who had headed up the department of Energy. Many interesting, candid, anecdotes, but, specifically, on PV he said how everyone was complaining that China was competing with us on panels due to low labor costs in panel assembly. However he visited one of their new plants and it was almost totally automated. Very few employees. China was competing by advancing manufacturing technology. Long term goals and investment.
-Steve > On Jan 5, 2023, at 7:30 PM, Peter Gabrielsson via EV <[email protected]> > wrote: > > He's definitely interesting to listen to but keep in mind that he is > selling a book or 3. His analysis seems a bit simplistic but makes for > great sound bites. > > In one video he claims solar panels will get more expensive due to labor > cost increasing, and according to him you just can't automate panel > production. Five minutes of research will show you how wrong that is. > (There are other factors that might drive panel cost up though) > > He's not wrong that EVs use more energy to build but he does seem to blow > that aspect out of proportion. Plenty of reputable research has shown that > EVs have lower emissions over the life of the car, including production. > > The resource consumption is a problem and for now EVs may remain a luxury > good and will definitely not save us from global warming. We can't consume > our way out of it. > > I don't detect any strong political bias except a hard-on for anyone with > an aggressive foreign policy. His target audience seems to be rather right > leaning and US centric though. > > While largely data driven his conclusions lean towards oil and gas being > the future and green tech being a silly distraction. He barely mentions > global warming. > > > > >> On Wed, Jan 4, 2023, 12:31 PM Michael Ross via EV <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> That subject is a bit of a troll, but I would like to have some >> conversation about whether EVs really make green sense or even profitable >> manufacturing sense. >> >> This is a short YouTube video by Peter Zeihan. Entitled >> EV's Not-so-little Dirty Secret(s) >> https: <delete these spaces> //youtu.be/Qf85EuQKWeQ >> or search on YouTube for the title >> >> I hate it that on many points he is correct, but some others are not, but >> not necessarily in a good way. >> >> PZ is a demographer and geographer. He says that globalization (which was >> enabled by the US Naval presence in the shipping lanes since WWII) has >> ceased to exist and a lot of unsuccessful geographies are at the tipping >> point of big failure. Also Russia is dying, and China is even worse off. >> 10% of the world's calories came from Ukraine. Russia is a major source of >> big ag fertilizers. In a year we will be talking about global famine like >> we have not seen if the geopols are right. >> >> Anyway he is worth listening to. >> >> Regarding green tech, it is one of many tech that are dependent on >> globalization and in many ways on oil production. There is a lot to say >> which I won't try to explain. If you want to hear educated guesses about >> the next decades with only a fraction of manufactured production worldwide, >> check out Zeihan or the other geopoliticians out there. >> >> Regarding EVs, and Tesla in particular, PZ has a very good grip on where >> the material inputs come from, how long, and what it takes to ramp up >> production of things like new production of nickel, cobalt, neon, lithium, >> zinc, semiconductors, the energy cost for special aluminum for bodywork, >> and so on, and on, and on. It is not good. The carbon footprint of Teslas >> is not good when you correctly factor in the manufacturing footprint. He >> also notes that they are still a luxury car that is very often not the >> primary vehicle, but is instead a third or even forth car. That makes for a >> very long payback period before EVs start to look C neutral. He makes a >> good point that the carbon side of this only really works for light duty >> vehicles. The Ford eF150 is what, $90k? >> >> >> -- >> Michael E. Ross >> (919) 585-6737 <http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B19195856737> Land >> (919) 901-2805 <http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B19199012805>Cell and >> Text >> (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> >> <http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B19195760824> Tablet, Google Phone >> and Text >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230104/e0036f83/attachment.htm >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Address messages to [email protected] >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230105/88d85ddb/attachment.htm> > _______________________________________________ > Address messages to [email protected] > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > _______________________________________________ Address messages to [email protected] No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
