Brent: 'But they lasted a lot longer than we have.'

MP: Indeed this is probably true in most cases, but what none of them 
had, which we DO have access to, is scientific method. Now I know Bruno 
is dismissive of scientific method as applied in the modern world, but I 
think Bruno is being idealistic. The fact is that we live in an ecology 
made of dirt. I mean, what is good soil if not bug pooh! And we live in 
a real world in which entropy is king, so to speak.

You are right that modern American culture seems irretrievably, and 
perhaps fatally, dependent on burning oil in car engines. Well that may 
just be the doom of the USA. It does not have to be the doom of the rest 
of humankind!

In fact, if 'Americans' were really smart they would realise that not 
only do they have one of the most well watered continents, supplied with 
very fertile soils [compared to Australia anyway], and abundantly 
supplied with useful minerals accessible to safe and sensible mining, 
endowed with beautiful landscapes, beaches, snow fields, lakes, 
wonderfully diverse flora and fauna. Not only ALL THAT which so many 
USA-ns either ignore in mind boggling ignorance or just take for granted 
in a media mesmerised torpor but, under Yellowstone National Park [or is 
that 'Jellystone'] there is a vast reservoir of heat energy which needs 
to be tapped or else one day it's going to blow and spread deep ash from 
Harlem to Hollywood.

The caveat will be DO NOT BREACH THE TOP OF IT!  The trick to successful 
usage will be to sink water-filled shafts down many kilometres in the 
cooler rock around the perimeter of the hot spot and then tunnel and 
drill horizontally into the hot mass so as to gradually liberate the 
heat energy and gas pressure. Remote control mining underwater should 
not be hard to master for the spiritual descendants of Edison, Bell, 
Ford, and so forth.

When I contemplate things like that I find myself boggled by the amazing 
stupidity of the so-called 'free market' ideologues who cannot 
understand how come cooperation is billions of times more powerful than 
the puny efforts of the so-called captains of industry who advocate  
scientifically discredited concepts of social Darwinism in order to 
maintain a dysfunctional, unfair, inefficient and life-threatening 
status quo.

[Amen! Amen! In the Name of Capital, Money, and Market, Amen!     Hail 
Banks! Mothers of Money, Blessed art Thou amongst Companies!]

Hmm think of it ... Father Capital, Dollar Bill the Son, and the Unseen 
Hand of Market, the Comforter who is always with us and is never wrong 
... :-)

But really, my point is that in this modern era we finally have the 
intellectual tools we need to liberate the human race from slavery. Only 
some of it is 'rocket science', the rest is common sense and hard work, 
coupled with the realisation that a person who is truly smart and truly 
strong, is also truly kind. Why? Because his/her cup runs over, and 
there is nothing nobler than to help those in need who share our world 
during our transient passing through.


Mark Peaty  CDES



Brent Meeker wrote:
> Mark Peaty wrote:
>> No Brent, what I AM saying is that they are GONE! Well and truly 
>> gooooorrrrrrnnnnnn!
> But they lasted a lot longer than we have.
>> We could get side tracked into all sorts of discussions about how each 
>> of the civilisations you named, waxed and waned more than once in the 
>> face of environmental changes and the inherent instability of feudal 
>> societies, but I haven't got the time [fascinating though it would be :-].
>> My point is that, with all due respect to the late Douglas Adams, and I 
>> suppose to whoever it was who wrote the book of Daniel in the 
>> Judaeo-Xian Bible, the TRUE
>> "Writing on the Wall" AKA God's last message to humankind, is five short 
>> words in plain-English:
>>     * Shape up or die out!
>> What I say is if we really want to 'shape up' and survive, then 
>> compassion, democracy, ethics and scientific method are four essential 
>> ingredients without which our modern world will go the way of all those 
>> other civilisations your mentioned. 
> It will go the way of those other civilizations anyway because: a) it's 
> dependent on energy from cheap oil and b) all civilizations rise and fall, 
> none last forever.
> Brent Meeker
> Nations and empires flourish and decay,
> By turns command,  and in their turns obey.
>       --- Publius Ovidius Naso
> >

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