Le 20-mars-07, à 17:07, Brent Meeker a écrit :

>
> Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>
>> Le 01-mars-07, à 00:35, Brent Meeker a écrit :
>>
>>> Brent Meeker quoted:
>>> "Atheism is a belief system the way "Off" is a TV channel."
>>>     --- George Carlin
>>
>>
>>
>> Carlin makes the typical confusion between atheism and agnosticism.
>>
>> An atheist has indeed a rich belief system:
>> 1) he believes that God does not exist (unlike an agnostic who does 
>> not
>> believe that God exists: that makes a huge difference)
>
> I disagree.  Those are definitions consistent is usage, but so are
>
> atheist: one who doesn't believe that God (meaning the god of theism) 
> exists.
>
> agnostic: one who believes it is impossible have any knowledge as to 
> whether God exists.
>
> Those are also common usages and align more closely with the etymology 
> of the words.


Even searching in most web dictionaries I don't find such definitions, 
except in parentheses with remark like "some also use the term in such 
or such way".


>
>
>> 2) he generally believes in a material or Aristotelian Universe
>> (despite its contradiction with comp,
>
> What contradiction is that?


It is the epistemological contradiction which follows the UDA 
reasoning. It is not an ontic contradiction because science can never 
refute anything ontological. But it is a logical contradiction between 
comp, materialism and even very weak form of Occam razor, like the 
contradiction in believing in both thermodynamic and invisible horses 
pulling cars.



>
>> or with QM, or with some
>> physically reproducible facts, and despite any proof or argument 
>> beyond
>> the Aristotelian Matter reification.)
>
> To say one shouldn't reifying matter seems like saying one shouldn't 
> anthropomorphize people.  Things made of matter, tables and chairs, 
> exist paradigmatically.  That there may be some deeper, more 
> fundamental explanation of tables and chairs hardly makes them go 
> away.

Of course. I was talking about primitive or reifed matter, not about 
gluons or elephants.


Must go for now,

Bruno


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/


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