Gevin, thanks for your comprehensive - and very understandable - explanation about "nothing" (no pun) and its qualia-circumstances. My post to Hal targeted "nothingness" as differentiated from "nothing". The concept, not the qualia or nature of its adjectival meaning. I regret to have missed so far your book. It must be an intresting reading. John M

On Jan 9, 2008 7:23 AM, Gevin Giorbran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jan 8, 1:01 pm, "John Mikes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > JM: does anything like 'completion' make sense in speaking about an > > unlimited totality? Furthermore: are 'copies' considerable substantial > > items, or simply our figment of looking from different angles into > > different angles - at the same item? > > 1. If there is -a- 'nothingness' does it multiply when we in our > > human logic detect "it" again? > > 2. Do we assign qualia to nothingness? of course not. > > - I am inclined to sort nothingness with infinity: we can talk about > > it but have no (human) reason-based meaning - understanding - about > > its essence. Georg Cantor tried it for the "infinity" - what > > I still consider a mathematical game of details - not the end. > > I haven't had a chance to explore RS's book yet, but I can share the > simple way that I unite nothing and infinity in my own book which is I > suppose is fundamentally about nothing and everything. > > There is a real existing "nothing" and there is a concept nonexistence > and they should never be confused. The real nothing is common, > "nothing in the refrigerator", a white canvas, empty space (the ideal > or direction toward i.e., expansion). The real nothing is simply > balance, uniformity, perfect symmetry. It isn't a cancellation of > properties or existence, it is a unification or synthesis into a > single form, which we see as nothing. Cook everything in the frig > together and you end up with one thing with far fewer properties. That > property-less "one" in mathematics is zero. In a simple examination of > zero it appears to contain all other numbers, as x + -x equals zero. > However, zero mathematically refers to "no things" or cancellation, > and so we say the sum of all reals is indefinite. However, as I > explain in my book there are two mathematical systems not one. It is > all or nothing. Zero can either represents no things, or zero > represents all things. If zero is all things, zero becomes infinite, > and as a result all numbers become infinite. +1 becomes all numbers > except -1 is excluded, etc etc. Suddenly instead of counting things, > numbers represents fragments of the everything of zero. The radical > consequence of this is that the value or content of numbers decreases > rather than increases. Five is a larger infinity than four, since more > has been removed, it is a smaller fragment of the whole of a zero > everything. 5 billion is a much smaller value and as we count into > greater numerals our value or content is decreasing and even > converging toward an infinitely small value. What we are doing is > fragmenting zero, we are slicing it up into parts, and since our > numerical value is converging rather than diverging we can recognize a > smallest number, positive infinity, an exact division or fragmentation > made of zero, which in this system is an actual value, no less > definite and completed than the whole of zero, and so this infinity > not merely a never ending or unlimited process. I call this number > Proto, and the negative Elea. So where we are used to not having a > mathematical value to represent everything, and used to being caught > up in incomprehensible indefinite infinities, in this math the overall > infinity of mathematical values is bounded by extremes. There is an > all positive half, an all negative half, and the whole of zero. In the > same way there exists infinite fractions between zero and one, this > math system is infinite yet bounded by extremes, and note there is no > nothing in this system, or rather nothing and everything are the same > thing...zero. > > My cosmological application of this system is that Proto, I claim, is > the infinitely dense (all positive) and infinitely small singularity > in our past, the extreme of all positive, and the pendulum swung all > the way to one side. (In this second system there cannot be a value > smaller than half of the whole, yet that smallest value is still > infinite). The zero of this math, or Omega, is the singularity of > empty space toward which our universe is currently accelerating > towards. It is the largest value in nature, and why the universe > expands and ultimate ends as a perfectly flat space extending > infinitely in all directions (perfect symmetry). > > The most dramatic consequence of all this being the realization that > our universe is not simply becoming disordered, our universe is not > dying, rather time evolves away from one kind of order (the ultimate > grouping of all positive apart from all negative, with each having > high symmetry internally while relative to zero they are perfect > asymmetry) and time evolves towards a whole other kind of order > (unity, balance, perfect symmetry) which is actually the infinite > whole, a quantum superposition of all universes, matter and antimatter > worlds, antimatter worlds being those that travel from negative Elea > to zero. > > So as to why we exist rather than nothing at all, the answer is that > nothing still exists. What we think of as nothing is really > everything, and zero is the native state of being, as non-being or > nonexistence cannot "be" (Parmenides). It simply is. We are inside the > real nothing, inside zero. Ordinary math is based upon the order of > the past, the distinction and form that results of slicing zero up, > with Proto claiming to be the great 1, the beginning, everything that > matters, more than zero. This second system, which I call symmetry > math, is certainly less functional in our everyday lives, but it is > less of an abstraction of true reality, and applies much more > effectively to cosmology, the study of the whole. > > Gevin Giorbran > http://everythingforever.com > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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