On 26/12/2008, at 5:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

>
> On 25 Dec 2008, at 08:05, Abram Demski wrote:
>
>>
>> Bruno,
>>
>> I agree with Gunther about the two types of machine. The broader
>> machine is any system that can be logically described-- a system that
>> is governed by rules and has a definite description.
>
> Then Church thesis entails it is not broader, unless you mean that  
> the rules are not effective.
>
>
>

I might be missing something here, but somebody please give an example  
of a system that is NOT governed by rules and possesses NO definite  
description.

cheers,

K



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