Pre-Scriptum (for John Mikes). John, I will answer your post in the  
following days. Thanks for your patience.





On 07 Mar 2009, at 03:36, Kim Jones wrote:


>
> On 06/03/2009, at 11:24 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>
>>
>> - Neither physicists nor logicians really knows about the mind-body  
>> problem. So it is easy to make someone interested in consciousness  
>> looking crazy: just say: this guy is interested on consciousness  
>> (with a grin).
>>
>> Why does some people want me so much looking crazy? Well if I tell  
>> you, I would myself find you insane to believe me. So I will not  
>> even try.
>> If you known Belgium recent story, you can imagine, and reality is  
>> beyond what you can imagine.
>>
>
>
> Bruno
>
>
> last night I dreamt that my cat had divided itself into two cats.  
> Both cats were clones and happily running about and interacting. I  
> could see both and was discussing with some friends the puzzle of  
> why only some people, like me could see the constant clonage of  
> things living. During the dream I had the amazing perception that  
> this was happening to all living objects and it was as logical and  
> certain as anything perceived during the day with eyes wide open.


Self-duplication, or its many tortuous delayed forms that nature seems  
to repeat all the time can give an intuition of all this. This is  
where the idea are germing. Good dreaming work !



>
> Also amazing - the "belief" that this is happening to macro (living)  
> objects persisted in my brain for about a half an hour after I woke  
> up.


Hmmm... I would complain on your coffee manufacturer :)
Unless you enjoyed the feeling.


> Clearly, translating into English your "amoebas" is having a  
> profound effect on my unconscious mind.
>
> This also highlights for me the mysterious nature of "belief". As  
> you mention, early on in the thesis, we can believe no matter what  
> falsity while we are asleep and dreaming. The occasional powerful  
> dream like this one that penetrates the awake conscious mind shakes  
> the very foundations of what we consider to be "reality".
>
> What then, is the value of paying attention to the dreaming mind in  
> this odyssey of "The Fabric of Consciousness" we are all hypnotized  
> by at this time?


Dreaming, and reflexion on dreams, and dreamy reflexion on dreams are  
shortcut path in the metaphysical labyrinth, be it day dreaming,  
mother of mathematics, or night dreaming, mother of metaphysics.

Observation is quite important too, for guessing better and better the  
most stable invariants.

But assuming comp, dreams obeys laws, mathematical invariants.  
Physical realities are consensual realities among many dreaming  
observers. Physical realities being both deep on surface and linear at  
the bottom could explain why it looks so computational *around* us,  
when it is so not *computational* about us.
Who dreams? Guess what: only you can decide, and it could be that such  
a decision will make you immortal here or immortal there.

Dreaming or not dreaming, the best we can do is to try to be self- 
referentially correct with respect to the most probable histories.  
Look what happen when we aren't:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2BgjH_CtIA&feature=channel_page


>
> PS - expect to post to this thread an instalment of the continuation  
> of the translation by tonight - am being extremely careful to get it  
> dead right to avoid any ambiguities.

I appreciate your seriousness. Take it easy, though, and sleep well :)
I will have to reread at ease in April, but it seems quite nice to me,  
of course at some level I can hardly judge. It is a bit confusing to  
read oneself, and, in a translation it can be even more weird.

Bruno


>
> regards,
>
> Kim Jones
>
>
>
> People often confuse belief in a reality with belief in a
> physical reality - Bruno Marchal
>
>
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
>
> Email:
> kmjco...@mac.com
> kimjo...@ozemail.com.au
>
> Web:
> http://web.mac.com/kmjcommp/Plenitude_Music
>
> Phone:
> (612) 9389 4239  or  0431 723 001
>
>
>
>
>
> >

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/




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